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Post by Samejima Masatoshi on Sept 4, 2017 0:52:35 GMT -5
Greetings! I am looking at making a Dobuku sugata outfit for myself (inspired by this photo: www.wodefordhall.com/d%C3%B4buku.jpg) and I'm looking for some advice if anyone has some to share. I am aiming to make the outfit all of linen in the IL090 variety (http://www.fabrics-store.com/first.php?goto=fabricselector&menu=f&design=&weight=&design=&type=&color=&article=164&width=&content=) - as a Rapier Fighter I tend to prefer making garb that can double as Rapier Armor, and 2 layers of this should pass punch test. I am planning white for the inner kosode, black for the outer kosode and black for the hakama with the dobuku unknown at this stage. Being a larger man (6ft, 60 inch waistline) I strongly suspect I will have to scale the panels to match my body. I don't have an issue with this, the linen is quite wide to begin with and I'm always happy to have more fabric. I am wondering if anyone who has made Japanese clothing for larger people have encountered any issues, and if so, how did you solve them/what did you learn from them? I don't want to invent the wheel twice, as I don't enjoy sewing *that* much. I would also appreciate any advice on making a nice dobuku, is there a way to make it slightly heraldic in any way? Thank you kindly all! |
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Sept 5, 2017 9:06:40 GMT -5
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Post by Samejima Masatoshi on Sept 5, 2017 9:48:30 GMT -5
Clearly I wasn't paying attention when I was searching your website, this answers all the questions I had and a few I thought of while reading. Thank you kindly! |
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Sept 5, 2017 10:09:04 GMT -5
Oh, good. One thought for hakama, I use the front belt loops of my jeans to measure where I want to attach the legs to the waist ties. There's a nice PDF pattern at www.sengokudaimyo.com/garb/graphics/patterns/hakama1.PDFIf you use 60" wide panels for each leg, change 30"/15" measurement of where the crotch seam is to 40"/20." Also, since this is for rapier armor, you might consider a shitagi instead of a kosode - it will give you a full length sleeve. www.wodefordhall.com/japaneserapier.htm has instructions on how I make mine - again, you'll have to measure yourself and scale accordingly, but mine work nicely as a stand-alone garment or under any of my other garb. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 10:11:51 GMT -5
I am aiming to make the outfit all of linen in the IL090 variety As a Rapier Fighter I tend to prefer making garb that can double as Rapier Armor, and 2 layers of this should pass punch test. Have you made any lined garments before? There are some tricks to it.I have not seen examples where the kosode and hakama match. I'd either go for a contrasting kosode, or step up to a hitatare, which often matches.You'll be more comfortable as well. One tip I've seen is to stand with your arms stretched out to the sides and have somebody measure your wrist-to-wrist distance, then divide that by four and add an inch to get your panel width. Start with the white under-kosode because it won't matter so much if that is a little small or large, and see how you like it. I tend to make the panels for outer garments a little wider than the panels for inner garments, which provides more opportunity for experimentation.I've never seen any dobuku with mons on them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. You could step up to a jinbaori instead, as those often have heraldry. At the very least, you could make a dobuku out of two or more colors of fabric. Many of them appear to have been quite decorative. |
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Post by Samejima Masatoshi on Sept 5, 2017 10:41:36 GMT -5
Oh, good. One thought for hakama, I use the front belt loops of my jeans to measure where I want to attach the legs to the waist ties. There's a nice PDF pattern at www.sengokudaimyo.com/garb/graphics/patterns/hakama1.PDFIf you use 60" wide panels for each leg, change 30"/15" measurement of where the crotch seam is to 40"/20." Also, since this is for rapier armor, you might consider a shitagi instead of a kosode - it will give you a full length sleeve. www.wodefordhall.com/japaneserapier.htm has instructions on how I make mine - again, you'll have to measure yourself and scale accordingly, but mine work nicely as a stand-alone garment or under any of my other garb. Okay, I'm sure that makes sense, but my brain just farted on the PDF. That looks familiar. Our Baronial loaner kit and several of our fighters have very similar jackets in ugly fabric for training. Would it look odd for me to have the full length sleeved shitagi as an undergarment under the shorter sleeved kosode? Since I want the layered look would I be better doing two shitagi? |
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Post by Samejima Masatoshi on Sept 5, 2017 11:06:56 GMT -5
I am aiming to make the outfit all of linen in the IL090 variety As a Rapier Fighter I tend to prefer making garb that can double as Rapier Armor, and 2 layers of this should pass punch test. Have you made any lined garments before? There are some tricks to it.I have not seen examples where the kosode and hakama match. I'd either go for a contrasting kosode, or step up to a hitatare, which often matches.You'll be more comfortable as well. One tip I've seen is to stand with your arms stretched out to the sides and have somebody measure your wrist-to-wrist distance, then divide that by four and add an inch to get your panel width. Start with the white under-kosode because it won't matter so much if that is a little small or large, and see how you like it. I tend to make the panels for outer garments a little wider than the panels for inner garments, which provides more opportunity for experimentation.I've never seen any dobuku with mons on them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. You could step up to a jinbaori instead, as those often have heraldry. At the very least, you could make a dobuku out of two or more colors of fabric. Many of them appear to have been quite decorative. I've dabbled in lined garments before. I'm hardly an expert, but I sew with a costuming laurel in my household and my Pel makes awesome garb so I have local competent people to panic at - thank you for the concern. Okay - I'll take a look at other items that feature matching colours. Perhaps a kataginu. Do you have any thoughts on pairing kataginu with jinbaori? That sounds like solid advice. I had intended to add a few inches of wiggle room to the outer garb to begin with since I can always trim it down if it ends up too baggy. I do like the look of a jinbaori - do you have any patterns or useful sources I can use to extrapolate handy? I can design a basic pattern based on visual examination of extant photos, but why reinvent the wheel? Thank you kindly! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 11:47:56 GMT -5
I've dabbled in lined garments before. I'm hardly an expert, but I sew with a costuming laurel in my household and my Pel makes awesome garb so I have local competent people to panic at - thank you for the concern. Cool. ONe trick I learned is that since you can attach the collar last, that gives you full access to the interior seams of the garment. It's a bit topologically interesting, but that's what makes it exciting.  Technically, a jinbaori is a "camp coat" for wearing while in a military camp, and a kataginu is a sleeveless hitatare. I always feel a little silly if I'm wearing a kataginu under a dobuku, but I can't point to anything one way or the other to say it is "wrong"/"right".My persona is not a military man, so I haven't done much research into jinbaori at all, really. A web search finds a paper by Valerie Foley from 1992 (25 years ago!) published through the Textile Society of America in which Foley describes such variation in jinbaori (in service to "oneupmanship" she says) that it seems you could get away with almost anything. Thank you kindly! [/quote] |
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Sept 5, 2017 12:26:53 GMT -5
Look! Mon on a dobuku. www.sengokudaimyo.com/garb/graphics/garbphotos/dobuku1L.jpgDobuku can be sleeveless, BTW. It's a nice alternative to a jinbaori if you're going for a non-military look. www.sengokudaimyo.com/Archive/garb/graphics/garbphotos/dobuku_sugata.jpgMy shitagi is a single layer for the sleeves and then two layers of 7 ounce canvas for the body panels, with a 5" patch under the arm on each sleeve to accommodate the Society Standard requirements on puncture resistant coverage. Puncture resistance counts *all* the layers you wear to fight in. A friend of mine fights in a ratty tunic that passes with a heavy cotton tee shirt under it. Be sure to factor that into your ensemble planning so you don't end up with heat illness. |
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Post by Samejima Masatoshi on Sept 5, 2017 20:14:09 GMT -5
Look! Mon on a dobuku. www.sengokudaimyo.com/garb/graphics/garbphotos/dobuku1L.jpgDobuku can be sleeveless, BTW. It's a nice alternative to a jinbaori if you're going for a non-military look. www.sengokudaimyo.com/Archive/garb/graphics/garbphotos/dobuku_sugata.jpgMy shitagi is a single layer for the sleeves and then two layers of 7 ounce canvas for the body panels, with a 5" patch under the arm on each sleeve to accommodate the Society Standard requirements on puncture resistant coverage. Puncture resistance counts *all* the layers you wear to fight in. A friend of mine fights in a ratty tunic that passes with a heavy cotton tee shirt under it. Be sure to factor that into your ensemble planning so you don't end up with heat illness. My thinking at the moment is to make a practice version, lined with itself to make a two layer single item piece of garb which gives me the two layers. This gives me some new training garb and lets me take a look at sizing. For my pretty garb I was thinking an under jacket, over jacket, both to wear under the hakama with the two layers meeting punch test (the 8oz linen should more than pass at two layers), with a decorative heraldic overjacket because why not. At the moment it's just a question of the actual pieces of clothing in question and putting it together. |
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