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Post by Nobuhide on Apr 15, 2005 10:03:32 GMT -5
how would one curve the wood? i really want to use my bokken but theyre japanese oak and im afraid its too hard for sca combat. is rattan as strong as japanese red oak? or can i use my daisho? if i cant, someone explain the sca weapons, i know theres a thrusting tip needed if you plan to thrust, but does it need all the duct tape and electrical tape that personally i think is SO DAMN UGLY. i mean like, some people come with armor and garb so beautiful it could be right out of a 16th century painting, but then they raise theyre weapon, the classic signal of elegant power, and its a stick with duct tape, electrical tape, and a bunch of pipe insulaton on the tip. it brings tears to my eyes.
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Apr 15, 2005 10:12:13 GMT -5
If this is about SCA combat - then rattan is the only material you can use. I believe Siloflex is about to become obsolete.
You can shape rattan to some extant. You can shave it. You can soak it in water and set some curve into it.
You can make your tsuba and tsuka as pretty as you like.
But you can't turn a stick of rattan into katana.
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Apr 15, 2005 11:46:53 GMT -5
if i cant, someone explain the sca weapons, i know theres a thrusting tip needed if you plan to thrust, but does it need all the duct tape and electrical tape that personally i think is SO DAMN UGLY. Please search out your kingdom's website. I'm sure they publish their specific armor and weapons standards. Because if you walk out there with your pretty red bokken the marshals are going to tell you you can't play. i mean like, some people come with armor and garb so beautiful it could be right out of a 16th century painting, but then they raise theyre weapon, the classic signal of elegant power, and its a stick with duct tape, electrical tape, and a bunch of pipe insulaton on the tip. it brings tears to my eyes. You'd be surprised at the difference between a well designed stick with duct tape and a bad one. I am not a fighter. I am not normally given to anthropomorphic claptrap about the spirit of a weapon, particularly when it's a duct taped stick, but even I can tell the difference. A good stick WANTS to move the right way in your hand. My roommate Sir Gaius knows how to make a stick! There is a degree of artisanship in preparing and balancing a humble piece of rattan. Learn how and take pride in that. Once that humble stick is in the right hands and taking heads, it's doing the job it was designed for and that's all one can ask from any tool. Two sen worth, Makiwara
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Post by Saiaiko on Apr 18, 2005 9:55:19 GMT -5
Ohayou Nobuhide-dono,
I agree with the idea that the weapon's functionality inhibits it's aesthetic appeal sometimes, especially in contrast to the rest of the kit, but there are some ways around it. Makiwara-hime is absolutely correct in saying that there is a noticeable difference between the look of duct tape bandaged stick and a weapon whose owner obviously tries to come as close to an elegant weapon as rattan can get.
I've been known to completely strip and retape my katana before each event. I use the barest minimum of tape on my weapons. You'd be surprised at how much weight duct tape adds. The minimum amount of tape (one layer layed length-wise not wrapped around, with a contrasting stripe for the blade) allows the shape of the rattan to be more easily seen and keeps its thin profile. I don't use a thrusting tip, as my school teaches without it. Besides there's nothing more satisfying than bi-secting your opponent. "Yep, that's really dead."
Before I begin to shape my weapon, I spend a good while with it in my bare hands moving it about to determine it's balance, personality, and length. After a while, the rattan finds it's "home" in my grip, and I mark it, shape the handle to my grip and tape it. Recently I have begun taping all of my weapons (katana, wakazashi, tanto) in red with a black contrasting strip. While this obviously does not mimic the coloring of a real blade, its effect is striking. My daimyo has also suggested creating a "collar" of silver tape to mimic an element of a tsuka. I have also thought of doing a traditional battle wrap in tape, as the formidable Date Genshiro Toshinobu (a squire of my daimyo) does. It is down-right sexy. In the end, what I have is a well-balanced, minimalistic, aggressively-colored weapon that suits me well.
I feel the best way to make a rattan katana is to approach it the same way sword makers approach steel. Is the raw material of good quality (dry, light, fast moving in your grip)? When you grip it with gauntlets on and off, can you determine its balance? Does the material want to swing a certain way, showing you how it wants to cut the air? What details (your death poem written on the blade, your arms or name on the hilt) will you add to make the sword your own and not just something to club people with? Beauty is power, and in a society filled with tattered war-clubs, it is possible to create a weapon of elegance through care and attention to detail.
Just some thoughts, Minamoto.
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Post by Date Saburou Yukiie on Apr 18, 2005 10:33:29 GMT -5
Minamoto-dono, (Seriously...) That was just plain impressive. It makes me want to put on my armor and have you beat the snot out of me.
(Not so seriously...) Who are you and what have you done with our Saiaiko-hime? I don't know how you have gotten this super secret information from our school, and even formed logical theories about aesthetics, physics, and functionaliy for, for that matter...but we will not stand for that...
Our Clan will storm your alien spacecraft like it was a lonely mountain stronghold made of fresh cut timber, and pull her from your grasp...
Look Lady - listen to reason...you can't get away, you are surrounded...you have only enough oxygen pills to last a few more days, and whatever passes for your mommy-alien misses you - just release the girl and I will personally make sure you get a good lawyer...
Elder Date
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Post by Date Saburou Yukiie on Apr 18, 2005 10:44:27 GMT -5
Nobuhide-dono, The reason we use 1 1/2 inch (min) rattan is so that A) it will not fit into the 1 inch (min) eyeslots of our helmets... B) ballistically, a weapon of 1 1/2 rattan of a given sword length reasonably mimics a typical steel bladed sword... and C) most importantly, rattan shears off at a ninety degree angle if broken, leaving no long splinters that can enter the eyeslots of the helmet
We use rattan because it is NOT Japanese Red Oak.
As Minamoto-dono and Makiwara-dono point out, there are many ways to prepare a piece of rattan to fight...just as there are many ways to prepare a mind to grasp the realities of combat.
Date
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Apr 18, 2005 12:39:25 GMT -5
You mean like this honorably battle scarred tachi that lives on our patio? The tape wrap was sexier when newer. The owner can no longer fight due to health issues. We keep it in his honor and remember how much satisfaction it gave him to wield it against his enemies. (Besides, we've got the space for it.) She who misses her bodyguard dreadfully
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Apr 18, 2005 12:41:16 GMT -5
Let's try that again, shall we. (Yes, Otagiri-dono, I am a spaz! I always screw up image posts.)
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Post by Nobuhide on Apr 18, 2005 15:57:11 GMT -5
Let's try that again, shall we. (Yes, Otagiri-dono, I am a spaz! I always screw up image posts.) hm, well now. im gunna have to say thats the hottest piece of rattan ive seen yet.
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Apr 18, 2005 16:06:57 GMT -5
Sometimes a picture IS worth a thousand words. ;->
Does this mean we've convinced you that rattan has its own merits?
M.
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Post by fujiwara on Apr 18, 2005 19:35:45 GMT -5
How did that tsuba get past the marshalls?
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Apr 18, 2005 20:31:55 GMT -5
How did that tsuba get past the marshalls? Probably the same way mine does, by the time I put my hands on the thing there is very little tsuba projecting beyond my gauntlet. In 12 years I have not had a single marshal say "boo" about it, and I belive Kuji has been using the same (I inheritied mine from him) for at least 5 years more than that. -Takeda
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Post by Nobuhide on Apr 18, 2005 21:13:19 GMT -5
Sometimes a picture IS worth a thousand words. ;-> Does this mean we've convinced you that rattan has its own merits? M. well, two things. first id like to say you all have indeed prooven rattan to be an excellent medium for combat swords-when done properly. secondly, id like to point out i never had a problem with the rattan, but with the aesthetics of previous weapons and a misconception that regulations required things that would by any method ruin the look of a 'blade', i was mistaken. also i just wanted to use my daisho because i am already proficient in its use and would not need to craft a new weapon.
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Apr 18, 2005 21:26:10 GMT -5
Similar to Takeda-dono, I have had no marshal question my 3/8' thick tsubas in 20 years of fighting. I can see where some might in some places, so check with your local marshal. But I cannot recall an opponent who was injured or offended by mine.
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Post by Please Delete on Apr 18, 2005 21:53:49 GMT -5
Similar to Takeda-dono, I have had no marshal question my 3/8' thick tsubas in 20 years of fighting. Wow! 3/8 feet! That's, what 4 1/2"!! Wow! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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