Movie - Kingdom of Heaven

[Ryokai]

Well, I know itfs kind of out of our field... ok, its way the heck out of our field but none the less I'm going to give you all a review.

Story goes:
Knight comes back from the crusades to find his son, picks his son up, gets in a scuff and ends up dying from his wounds, before his death the old Baron manages to make his son a knight and pass on his title. Son ends up going to Jerusalem where he settles in on his fatherfs plantation/ranch/plot of land. Enter the Knights Templar: <boo, hiss> this rough and rowdy bunch is seeking to go to war with Saladin. Eventually they end up getting their way and war settles on Jerusalem. The Baron's son is befallen with the protection of the city and its people. Then, if you know your history, the battle comes to a close Jerusalem is handed over to Saladin. <random cheers>

Or so the gist of it goes.

In my humble opinion this movie actually had a little thought put behind it. Of course you can't get away from the wonderful Hollywood twist on things but aside from a few things they got terribly wrong they actually got quite a few things right!!! If you have been planning on attending this movie, if for no other reason than to see the trebuchets bombarding the daylights out of the city walls, I highly recommend it!

[Saionji Shonagon]

It's not out of MY field, Ryokai-dono. After all, "Jehanne"
is an Anglo Norman Pig Dog of the first water.

If you have been planning on attending this movie, if for no other reason than to see the trebuchets bombarding the daylights out of the city walls, I highly recommend it!

The previews looked extremely promising in terms of costuming and armor, and Messrs. Neeson, Irons and Thewlis are always worth watching. Going to try to catch it today, myself!

Got to pull the lanyard on a trebuchet once - what a thrill! Even if we were just launching potatoes and onions with it.
Go here to see the scale:
history.westkingdom.org/Year39/Photos/CAS11.htm

Makiwara

[Saionji Shonagon]

I came, I saw, I enjoyed. But now I want to throw big rocks at things. ;->

M.

[Akimoto Kage]

I liked the movie for what it was a movie!

[AJBryant]

The historian in me was twitching like crazy, but it was fun.

In point of fact, Balian d'Ibelin was Balian II d'Ibelin of Nablus. His father was Balian, too, not Godfrey, and Balian was never a blacksmith; Balian the Younger was born into the noble state, and was in fact married to a widow of a former emperor of Byzantium. His older brothers, Hugh and Baldwin, preceded him to the estate, but Baldwin gave Ibelin to Balian and moved off. Balian certainly never ended up with Sybellia -- probably never boinked her, either -- and spent his life in the Holy Land, not France.

Guy was not the evil bully in the movie; in actuality, he was a rather weak-willed individual who listened to the last piece of advice given him. Usually, that advice was from his friend and supporter Reynaud de Chatillion (who, actually, was rather accurately depicted). Neither Guy nor Reynaud were Templars (being both married, of course!). Guy's marriage with Sybellia was a love match. He was quite the hunk, and she was smitten with him.

The character named "Tiberias" was actually Raymond III of Tyre, who also had a fief in Tiberias. Ridley Scott figured the audience would be confused with a major character named Reynaud and one named Raymond, so gave the latter his fief name of Tiberias.

The king of Jerusalem was not, at the time, Baldwin IV, the leper-king; Baldwin had died in 1184; his young nephew, Baldwin V, was on the throne (and died very quickly aged nine!) -- the vaccuum was met with a struggle between Guy (as Sybellia's hubby, he was in prime position) and Humphrey IV of Touron. Humph turned it down and supported Guy, which cheesed off Balian and Raymond. They both left the court.

Balian was in fact *at* Hattin, but was one of the few able to escape with his life. He had given Saladin his parole, and promised not to bear arms against him, but when he found Jerusalem undefended, was forced to take up the position of its sole noble defender left. (BTW, he sent Saladin a letter of apology explaining the situation, and why he had to break his oath.)

The character of the Patriarch, Heraclitus, is more or less right on -- he was a vainglorious and pompous man -- but it was HE, not Balian, who negotiated Jerusalem's surrender with Saladin.

The film also doesn't mention the 20,000 or so residents of the city who ended up as captive slaves because they couldn't pay the 10 gold pieces per person (five for women, two for kids) that Saladin demanded as their ticket to freedom. Heraclitus had the churches stripped of their gold and carried it off with his party; it could have freed all the city's inhabitants several times over.

As to the actual plot of the movie:

All this is, really, is "Gladiator II" -- Ridley took his last big picture and just repackaged it. Think about it.

Both films feature as the main character an outsider who has risen to be a great warrior. (Maximus, remember, was a Spaniard who had never even been to Rome.)

Both films feather the main character being offered a chance at incredible greatness -- and the throne itself -- if the man will only make one minor concession to his personal sense of honor.

Both films have the prig refuse -- even though he knows that the world as he knows it will sink into shite if "the other guy" (heh!) gets on the throne.

The other guy DOES get on the throne, and the kingdom goes to hell in a handbasket, thousands die needlessly, and it's up to our hero to show up the new king.

The ONLY difference is how it actually ends, for the kings and the hero-guy.

Heck, maybe Scott realized people liked "up" endings more than "downers."

Effingham

[Saionji Shonagon]

As to the actual plot of the movie:

All this is, really, is "Gladiator II" -- Ridley took his last big picture and just repackaged it. Think about it.

Complete with Convenient High Ranking Twinkie Trapped In Unpleasant Relationship. (TM)



M.

[Yamamori]

What really irritated me was the Templars as the source of all the badness in the Holy land, and the hollywood-morality (priests are supposed to be good, so they're all bad, and it's up to the bad good-guy to show what real good is...)

What really entertained me were the knightings. I know the second, mass-knighting was a bit of hollywood emotion-jerking, but just the look in their eyes after they rose - I wonder if there was an SCA knight as advisor to this... And they managed to have decent looking armor and fights.

One more irk - why the crap does he throw away his shield as they run into the battle?