Tate and Katana = Stick and Board?

I couldn't tell you with any authority about the historical precedent, but there's been a pretty interesting discussion about this issue going on here:
forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=59050

Unless things have changed greatly since I left, it shouldn't matter in Ansteorra. The only things requiring separate authorization were 9' fiberglass spear and 7' unpadded glaives. Authorization is no big deal, you do a bout to check shot callibration and make sure you don't shield punch people and that's about it.

I too had been reading the thread on AA, but have not been inclined to post my views... since it has come up here, I'm more inspired.

Note, wether you are doing European or Japanese, SCA combat is a-historical. It is a game, the rules for safety and the traditions of the conventions of combat do not aqequately reflect various historical practices. One of my personal pet examples are flat snaps... arguably the fastest and most effective basic shot in SCA combat, would generally be insufficent to inflict any harm in the armor that we are to base out calibration of shots on.

Bar grills instead of slotted bevors or klapvisors, Scandinavian personas using corner gripped round shields w/o bosses, Roman footsoldiers using 33-36" swords, 12th century English using hand and a half/greatswords, late 15th century German/Italian man-at-arms using large heaters instead of bucklers... etc. Most people make the choice to be a-historical.

Personally, when it comes down to "is this what my persona would use" it is tempered by "do I want to play today".

The marshal who authorized me Weapon and Shield here in Atlantia said it best:
"Just strap on a shield, since there is no spot on the card for " 'just single handed weapon'."


Unless you have some huge nodachi (another beef of mine) Katana fall into the "bastard sword/hand-&-a-half" category, heck quite a few non-japanese personals even have round handguards and have the handle wrapped. IIRC though if they refuse to fight a non-standard weapon, (unless it is experimental) it is they who take the loss. Also I have never known a sword and shieldman of general skill argue with facing a greatsword or bastard sword, generally in our game it is not the most effective for individual combat against weapon and shield.


I think more marshals would have a problem with that than just entering the list sans shield, armed with only a single handed sword... Not to mention it would be embarassing to get killed while trying to shake off your shield. Also I know of no sword and shield fighter to turn down facing a shieldless swordsman, it;s like shooting fish in a barrel.

So, IMO shields just don't happen for Japanese persona. I think the idea of fans-as-shields are goofy*, moreso than just taking the a-historical option and picking up a normal western shield and being ok with the abboration of it. It is a relitively rare occurance to have to worry about anyhow. (Authorizations aside)

Where it would matter would be for the special tournaments like "Battle of the 30" ones where we should be depicting as accurately as possible a set time period. But with the exception of Sir Raito's (Maybe Crown Prince again soon? Good Luck your Excelency!) event last year, the historical toruneys are closed to us in Japanese armor anyhow. (Note sword and shield do not get used there that much either, it seems to be primarily bastardsword and polearm)


*I know a good number of those who weild gumbawa as shields that can kick my backside though... Sir Tomoyuki, Sir Saito, Otagiri-dono., but the fans, for SCA safety reasons still look silly, and seems in my mind to be an a-historical practice, since the fans were not intended to be used as shields, but were pressed into emergency service as such. One of these days I have to make a list legal folding camp stool... again, just as a-historical but dang, if I am going to block with something in an emergency...

-Takeda

Greetings,

Isimaru-dono - take comfort, if you can, in that there is no one right answer, save the one that works for you.

Points to remember:
* As Takeda-dono wrote, SCA combat is largely ahistorical. This is largely true of the Society as a whole.
* The majority of rules (Society and kingdom) pertaining to armored combat are intended to address safety issues. There are certainly exceptions to this, thanks to ego and tradition, but making sure that we're safe is the primary goal.

What this means to us is that we must respect the concerns of the marshallate, but after that, what you do is a matter for you to decide as you will.

If you are into pursuing the high persona track, then do not use weaponry that would not have been accepted by your persona.

If you are filling a role in the Society (marshal or knight, for example), then you might be called upon to bear a shield now and again to aid in teaching others in its use.

If you are somewhere inbetween, then do what you will enjoy.

In the course of my membership in the Society, I have played the gamut. I cast off my shield as soon as I was authorized (sword and shield is a required first authorization in Calontir). A few years later I built a plywood tessen for a specialized tournament because it sounded fun (it was - I keep one around for times when what we're doing is more sport than re-creation). Now I'm building a lovely jingasa to be used as a center-grip round (for battlefield use only). Since I'm envisioning it as something I scavenged on-the-fly off of an opposing ashigaru, I need to decide on who's mon to put on it...

Regards,
Yoshi

Haven't followed the thread on AA, but here's a link I stumbled across on archers shields. Can't vouch for the research, but if it is factual perhaps the design can be modified to at least bring some amount of authentisity to the fight.

The link:
ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_denig_0301.htm

just scroll down and they talk about archers using shields.

Hope that helps in any fashion