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Post by CajunCoder on Nov 7, 2006 12:40:29 GMT -5
I suppose this is the right forum? Anyway, prepare to laugh at my ignorance ;D
Alright, well... I finally bought my first Japanese sword - I found a very simple, sturdy Wakizashi for only $150. I'm very pleased with it, but I realized that I am mostly ignorant of "sword etiquitte", pertaining to Japanese swords.
Searching online, I can find a decent amount of information about this stuff. Oddly enough though, I cannot find any more information about how to wear the katana other than "blade up on the left hip", which is pretty obvious anyway. But there seems to be a bit more to it than this - first of all, what do I do with the "ties" which are bundled up into a long knot? They definitly get in the way when trying to put the sword into your belt. I've seen a few iaidou pictures where there a rope hanging from the scabbard, in a sort of "U" shape, but I must wonder if this is period/authentic, or if it is just something done Anyway, any information/links (especially about wearing the sword) are highly appreciated!
[Edit - Just noticed the random "sin aidou word", which was supposed to be "sword". No clue how that got there.]
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Post by Please Delete on Nov 7, 2006 16:02:48 GMT -5
Well, most of the information you are going to find out there will probably be ryuha-specific (that is, as it is taught in a particular line of martial arts, such as Eishin Ryu, Mugai Ryu, or the ZNKR Seitei set). Information on what they did during our period of study is not as easy to come across, trusting mostly to the visual aids of pictures of the time. However, below should help you wear it in a semi-reasonable manner. First, make sure you at least have an obi and hakama. The obi is especially important as most hakama koshi-himo are just not strong enough to provide the support you are going to need alone. I also would avoid the karate or judo obi if you can help it--look for either an iaido specific obi or a 'kaku obi', which is a bit wider and sturdier. This will go on under your hakama, and together, the obi and koshi-himo should help you wear the sword properly. Now, the obi should go around you about three times. That will give you three 'layers' of obi. When I talk about these layers I'm going to describe the first layer as the layer closest to your skin, and the third layer as being the one farthest away. Once you have the obi on, I find it most convenient to put the knot in the back. I've tried both the back and the front, and the back just seems to work the best, although I'm not sure of period practice here. Ideally you should have the ends of the knot pointing more down than up so they don't poke out of your hakama. The way I wear my hakama is to first put on the front, with the long cords, so that the front is slightly above or on level with the top of the obi. The cords go around the back and then come down low--crossing at a point just below the obi in front, then going behind and tieing just below the knot in back. Next, I put on the back panel (in modern hakama the koshi-ita is riding on top of the knot, and there is a little tab that can often be inserted into the obit to provide just a bit more definition) covering the knot in back and bringing the ties down to meet where the front ties crossed. You can find several ways to tie this knot, and I prefer the 'ju-ji', or cross-shaped knot, myself, although I've been known to go with a simple bow at times, or a square knot. Make sure, whatever you do, the first loop you make goes over all of the cords there, not just the two back koshi-himo. Now, put your wakizashi in between the first and second layers of your obi. For extra security you can also have the kojiri (the butt of the saya) come out of the obi and go over your koshi-himo for the hakama. Once that is done, a simple way to do something with the sageo (the cord on the saya, or scabbard, which is usually through the 'kurigata'--and tied up in a fancy knot for display and transportation purposes by those skilled enough to do it) is to loop it around the back of the saya, and bring it up in front of you, folding it in a small loop and pushing that loop up through your koshi-himo. It should stay there. Other people do something similar but bring it in front, across the body, while there are also folks who do a figure 8 around the scabbard. There are some simple slip knots that can also be used to keep it in place, but these are easier to do than to describe, I find. BTW, if this is a shinken (live blade), please make sure that you are VERY careful of moving with it. I've had my own mogito (an iaito without a sharp edge) slip out several times because I was bending over, usually with hands full. Sometimes I will slip a small loop of the sageo over the tsuka to prevent that. However, you should expect to keep your hand on it while moving and learn to move it around with you, especially in a western setting. For some more information, check out Sword Forum International (SFI -- swordforum.com/). They have a lot of helpful information on swords, sword-use, etc. (a lot of dross, too, so be careful). Another site that may have some helpful info is Rich Stein's site on The Japanese Sword: www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htmHope that helps. I'd be willing to help with more, if I can. BTW, what kind of sword is it, if I may ask? Paul Chen? It sounds like a production blade, and not in the range of a Hataya blade, let alone Nihonto (a Japanese sword made by a licensed smith in Japan by the 'traditional' methods described by the Nihon Bijutsu Token Hozon Kai, or NBTHK). I generally recommend that people who want it only for costume go for an iaito, for safety, but otherwise there are some decent user blades by modern production smiths. -Ii
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Post by CajunCoder on Nov 8, 2006 5:48:28 GMT -5
Thanks! However, I still do not understand how to tie the sageo. Uh, could you give an illustration of any sort? Also, I assume the kurigata should rest on top of the koshihimo, keeping the saya from slipping out from under the belts? Yes, it is a production sword - as much as a completely authentic nihontou would be nice, I don't have that sort of money, heh. I got the "Musha Bessaku" from Cheness Cutlery, which you can see on their page here: www.chenessinc.com/wakizashi.htmIts rather large for a wakizashi, I think. But, that's what I was looking for - I must wonder if it is horribly unauthentic, though? For some reason, they're labeled "Live Blade Iaito", but it certainly has a sharp edge. I thought all iaitou were unsharpened? I suppose the "Live Blade" means that they are sharp, but... In that case, how would it be different from an ordinary katana/wakizashi? At any rate, it fits in the saya slightly snug - enough that seriously doubt it can fall out on its own. I do need to get used to... being more careful with it, though. My scabbards tend to get very beat up, and this one is also wood. Btw, I make my garb myself. One thing I've not put much attention into, though, is making a few good Obi. Usually I just make do with a peice of scrap fabric, or forget it and just let the hakama's ties hold the kosode closed. So, I suppose I'll have to make one now. How wide should it be? I'm thinking 2.5-3 inches? Once again, thanks for the informative reply!
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Post by Please Delete on Nov 8, 2006 6:24:04 GMT -5
Chenness appears to be a good company, as far as the production swords go. I have only seen one major complaint, and the customer service I witnessed afterwards was rather extraordinary, so I was rather impressed.
'Iaitou' is literally 'a sword for iai'. While many people assume this means it has no sharp edge, I recently found out that this is not an entirely correct assumption. In Japan, if you specifically want to note that it is a 'false' sword (indicating it is not a Nihonto nor is it a 'weapon', as it is made with an alloy that cannot hold a proper edge--often proven by the magnet test) you can use 'mogitou' (there are probably others, that's just the one I'm used to).
There's nothing terribly inauthentic about their wakizashi. Pre-Edo blades had a little bit more play in them, and wrap is probably not as tight as if paid someone to do it special, but it is not going to look out of place--overall, not a bad choice for just wearing around if you want a live blade. If you want places to learn to use it, let me know where you're at and I can try to hook you up, but otherwise, enjoy.
As for tieing that pesky sageo down, let me try a more illustrative example.
1. Put the sword in the obi. There should be some distance between the kurigata and the top of the obi, but, yes, it does help keep it from slipping out (but it shouldn't be moving too much anyway, so the kurigata shouldn't fall down and touch the top of the obi).
2. Hold the sword with your right hand for safety (keep your hand on the saya and your thumb on the tsuba but do not/not put your thumb over the area where the blade is, keeping it to the inside or outside). Take the sageo in your left hand.
3. Pass the sageo back over the latter part of the saya, so it is between the 'V' that the saya makes with the obi, koshi-himo, and your body. You can let the sageo just hang right there (many people do no more than this for some arts, or just as a quick way to get the sageo out of the way).
4. Now reach down and pick up the sageo that is hanging under the saya. Form a small bend in it (should be two cords, so you should have two bends). Stick this bend under your koshi-himo so the bend sticks up just a little bit above the koshi-himo. Depending on the length of your sageo, you may not be able to get this far in front of you, although halfway between the saya and the koshi-himo knot should be a good place to have it.
That should keep it from moving around on you. For more info, look online for 'sageo tie himo' and other combinations in google.
BTW, I recommend just purchasing a kaku-obi. Look online, prices aren't bad, and it will be worth the money (I think it is like $30--my time is worth it to me to just buy one).
-Ii
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Post by CajunCoder on Nov 11, 2006 4:59:28 GMT -5
Thanks, I think I have it down now.
As for martial arts, what did you have in mind? I've thought about it, but I doubt there are any teachers nearby (Mobile, AL. being the closest city which might have such, but that is a 45 min drive still). Were you refering to Kenjutsu? Iaidou? What are your thoughts on the different "branches" of Japanese martial arts, and which do you believe to be the most authentic?
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Post by Please Delete on Nov 11, 2006 8:36:27 GMT -5
Iaido/battodo/kenjutsu--I won't go too far into it about the fact that they are essentially the same, just different descriptions of the same thing (ryuha differences are generally more important than what X-jutsu or X-do it is called). That said, I'm not sure which direction you are 45 minutes from Mobile in, but you can check out several groups in the US. 'Modern' (i.e. non-Koryu, but 'traditional' ['koryu' usually refers to pre-Meiji arts]) US Battodo Federation -- USBDF, a US extension of the Zen Nihon Battodo Renmei, which appears to be an outgrowth of Toyama Ryu Battodo. Shinkendo -- Shinkendo, an outgrowth from Nakamura Ryu Battodo founded and headed by Obata Kaiso. They have dojo in Madison and Birmingham. Nakamura Ryu -- Not much in your area, but there are a few dojo in the US that are affiliated with the International Battodo Federation and the Kakuseikai--the honbu dojo of Nakamura Ryu in Yokohama, Japan. This is one of the arts that I study. All US Kendo Federation -- The US Kendo Federation is the US umbrella organization for the various local federations, a part of the International Kendo Federation, the International Branch of the Zen Nihon Kendo Renmei. There is an iaido component via the ZNKR Seitei Iai kata. Unfortunately, I don't see anything in Alabama, but it would be something to keep an eye out for. Koryu -A lot of the koryu are listed dojo by dojo, and there are splits, etc. so it is harder to find them sometimes, but here are a few things I picked up in your area: Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu -- One of the more popular styles of Iaido in the US, look up Jikishinkai International, which appears to be associated with Shimabukuro sensei, who is well respected in the sword community. Mugai Ryu Iaido -- There are three groups in the US claiming to have direct transmission of Mugai Ryu Iaido. Two of the groups recognize each other--those under Shiokawa-gosoke and Niina-gosoke. There was a split with the third, under Kuniba Shogo, which is often differentiated as 'Kuniba-ha' or 'Kuniba-ryu' depending on who you talk to. Muso Shinden Ryu -- Although I didn't find it in Alabama, it is related to Eishin Ryu, sharing some roots and teachers. I don't know much beyond that. Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu -- Again, I don't know if this is in Alabama, but Google it and see. This is one of the oldest extant Japanese martial arts, but there is a lot of confusion as to who is legitimate. The art is still 'owned' by a family in Japan, and all legitimate dojo should have a connection back with the head family. Kashima Shinryu -- Another koryu that may not be in your area, but to keep an eye out for. It appears to be an old traditional art, detailed by the highly respected Karl Friday in his book "Legacy of the Sword". Very traditional, from what I have seen, including a prohibition on its students to study other, similar arts. As with Katori Shinto Ryu, it appears to be what is sometimes called 'sogo bujutsu', indicating it incorporates more than just kenjutsu. Sekiguchi Ryu -- The only representatives I know of are the Mizuhi folks in Arizona under Carl McClafferty, but Sekiguchi Ryu Battojutsu is a traditional art going back to at least the Edo period, currently led by Yamada-gosoke, iirc. Shinto Muso Ryu -- Although technically jodo, it is taught alongside several other traditional weapons, including sword, jitte, and kusarigama. I don't know if there is anything in your area. Finally, look to ' Koryu.com' for some good information on a lot of the various ryuha and their histories. This is just the list off the top of my head. There are others out there as well. -Ii
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