cut laces

[Yvarg]

i wus thinking last night in bed and i realised that if samurai's armor wus held together by laces, wut would stop an opposing enemy from cutting the laces and practically destroying the armor???

[Takeda Sanjuichiro]

Well the absolute truth to it, is nothing.

However the design of Japanese armor makes it very difficult to cut enough laces to actualy cause bits to drop off. (unless of corse they manage to get your sode himo)

If you look at european lamallar armor, you find that they usually use cords/straps inside the armor, also you will notice that the way the armor is put together, the upper plates overlap the lower plates.

In Japanese armor, this is reversed (lower plates overlapping the upper). This does mean however that while a cut might engage the lacing it will soon run into the edge of the next lower lame. This in short reduces the exposure of any particular layer of lacing.

Another factor to consider is how it is laced together. In European armor (we will use the example of a roman lorica segmentata) it is strapped together with a minimum of leather straps, usually 6-10 for the body, and three for the shoulder plates. What this means is if one strap fails, conceivably a large portion of the armor can open up.

In Japanese armor (kebiki odoshi) you have a great many cords that are suspending the next plate down, even a 4 inch long section of lacing being severed will most likely not cause a row to sag or gap to a degree sufficent to open an unprotected section.

With sugake odoshi less lacing is used, but internal ties are even more prevalent, so while the lacing may be severed there is a hidden staple of lacing hidden behind the plate.

Another factor to consider is the type of combat used. Prior to the Sengoku era it ws generally most likely that you would die from a penetrating wound from an arrow, a spear, or a well placed tanto.

With slashing weapons like the sword and naginata the armor was effective, this is why they were used on the less armored or wholly exposed bits.

In the sengoku era infantry played an even greater role that previously, fatal wounds were most often from the same sources as before, with the edition of firearms adding another category to penetration.

In short, the armor even though "simply" tied together with laces was very durable and loosing some laces would not cause catestrophic failure. I sometimes wonder if we (SCA Nihon-philes) go through lacing faster than the samurai.

-Takeda
He who deburrs like a madman

[Yvarg]

i have considered some of wut u said before, but to me it seems that a horizantal slash from a katana could easily cut an entire section of lacing (besides the inside lacing). i dont know i might not fully understand this as i cant lace for 2 reasons:
i dont have enough patience (if it is ANYTHING like maille)
absolutely NO stores in southern CA sell flat-tubular nylon lacing.

[rjsimmons]

greeneel22 said:

i have considered some of wut u said before, but to me it seems that a horizantal slash from a katana could easily cut an entire section of lacing (besides the inside lacing). i dont know i might not fully understand this as i cant lace for 2 reasons:
i dont have enough patience (if it is ANYTHING like maille)
absolutely NO stores in southern CA sell flat-tubular nylon lacing.

It might, if the opponent were to allow such a cut. Remember, the battle is dynamic. Both foes actively seeking the weakness in their opponents defence. If you were seeking to do nothing more than cut a piece of your opponents armour away, you would likely loose your head in the process.

[Yvarg]

i forgot about that part...i need to engage in more battles...

[raito]

greeneel22 said:

i have considered some of wut u said before, but to me it seems that a horizantal slash from a katana could easily cut an entire section of lacing (besides the inside lacing). i dont know i might not fully understand this as i cant lace for 2 reasons:
i dont have enough patience (if it is ANYTHING like maille)
absolutely NO stores in southern CA sell flat-tubular nylon lacing.

On my old kebiki-laced dou, you'd probably have to make a cut a foot long before it would cause a problem.

As for you're reasons above:

It's not as bad as mail, that's for sure.
Southern CA may not sell it, but I do (darned supplier raised the price on me, though -- ouch)