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Post by Nobuhide on Apr 12, 2005 19:41:34 GMT -5
ok, so every damn piece of armor ive seen has FLAWLESS hole work done for the lacing. i gotsta ask, how DO you do it? i tried stacking some metal and clamping it down and drill pressing it, but giant burrs kept mooving it and making it all screwy so it looks like CRAP! i wasted so much steel doing this. thank god its not mine  !! all ive really been able to do is the sode and haidate(i had found me a hole punch by this time, but damn does it take alot of time and strength to get those things punched) so any tips? also ive thought of rivitting a Do together and then drilling 4 holes around the rivet, like a button, and doing some strictly aesthetic sugake odoshi, cuz i love the look but want the duribility of the rivetted method. what do you think.(although half or 3/4 of me says NOOOOOOO!!!! cuz i am obsessed with detail about historical accuracy) |
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on Apr 12, 2005 23:27:58 GMT -5
... has FLAWLESS hole work done for the lacing... I cannot speak for anyone else on here, but the holes in my armor are far from flawless, if you took out the lacing and looked at the holes on a single plate it would look fairly rough and inaccurate. For some reason the lacing hides it. Some of the plates I have seen on dissasembled historical armors seem to be the same way, the holes are not perfect, close, but they still look a little uneven. With the lacing in them, you can not tell. I too have thought long and hard about this, to build armors that will hold up better. the main problem with riveting and then lacing with either sugake odoshi, or kebiki odoshi, is not the cross lacing, but the suspension segment as it emerges from behind the lower plate. With sugake odoshi, if you simply drill or punch a round hole at the edge of the plate the suspention segment will be tapered as it "dives" behind the plate below by going through the hole. The solution would be to very carefully undercut the edge of the lower plate with a slot that is angled at a steep angle instead of 90 to the surface of the plate. The more simple solution is to lace it together in the traditional manner and pick selected spots to rivet along the plates that are not obscured by lacing, but use flush rivets, smooth them over, and paint/lacquer. Granted this means if you have to relace it will be a pain in the backside, but if the plates are firmly held together there will not be any stress on the lacing to cause wear in the first place. The slot method btw would be useless for kebiki odoshi since even if you carefully cut the slots on the angle to match the top of the scales, it would mean the lace would come through at an unrealistic angle and then have to "turn" to hang straight. This would create a very odd bulge or wrinkle in the lacing. Another thing to consider is if you realy realy want to make a multiplate do in the later style, why not consider the "lozenge sewn" method in which each plate is bound to the one below without the suspension segments. This is essentialy what you describe doing with your 1 rivet, 4 hole method. It;s period, and looks good if you keep the spacing right (No X's, just nice squares). Takeda Sanjuichiro |
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Post by OgamiBusho on Apr 13, 2005 1:07:24 GMT -5
The hole spacing on period Japanese armor is *far* from perfect, especially when you look at the armor made for the average guy instead of the stuff made for the generals and daimyo.
If you make a steel pattern guide and dimple the plates with a sharp-pointed nail setter, your drill bit won't wander and you'll have more regularly spaced holes.
But my feeling is that if your opponent is close enough to see all of the minor imprefections in your armor, it's because he's dead and you're standing on him. And who cares about a judgemental corpse, anyway?
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Post by Date Saburou Yukiie on Apr 13, 2005 9:20:16 GMT -5
I am, of course, in complete agreement with Ogami-sensei (How could I be otherwise ;-) ) but in regards to the adding rivits for strength, but maintaining the period look, you could always put a spacer washer the thickness of the odoshi between thr two plates being rivited...this would save you cutting all the extra channels for the odoshi, and is much simpler. The rivits could still be flush or peened and then ground and replacing the lacing, should you ever need to do so is MUCH easier. This works well for those who want rigid shikoro on their their kabuto, but still want kebiki or sugake odoshi...
And please, remember to space your holes for the lacing properly...the finished hishinui should make a compact ear-square...not a big X with the proverbial bullet train railroad tracks under them.
Date the elder...
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matt
New Member
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Post by matt on Apr 13, 2005 13:38:37 GMT -5
I agree with Date concerning the spacing washers between the lames, i used them on the first dou i made & it worked brilliantly. details are on this thread. tousando.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=armour&action=display&thread=1111236589when marking holes on straight lames that required matching spacing i tended to used a paper pattern, with all the centres laid out, glued to the plate(prit stick or similar, it's weak & peels of easily afterwards). Just punch your centres through it, & away you go. Matt |
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