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Post by Kinoshita Takemitsu on May 16, 2005 18:03:24 GMT -5
I've found 16 guage steel to make a Kabuto. Will it be strong enough? I've heard people recomending 14 guage steel instead. I've also heard that doing a ribbed multiplate Kabuto will increase the strength. How many plates would i need? I'm thinking it will take around 16 or so but i'm not sure. Also, will this increase the strength of the Kabuto enough?
next question.
I'm planning on making a Okegawa Dô. I'm thinking about 1/8" aluminium because I can find it for $20 for a 1/8" X 2" X8' bar stock. Will 2" wide be enough or would it look horrible? What size shank should i use on the rivets? Can I reduce the Underlap to 1/4" and still have the strength i will need? I'll be using the same width for the Kuza-Zuri, Sode and the lames of the Nodawa.
next question
Was Kikko ever used in the Kote? I'm planning on making Kikko out of 3/4" hexagonal peices of Blue closed cell foam sown between layers of cloth and modified to look like Kikko. I'm planning on using them In the upper Arms of the Kote and making a Manchira with it. It won't be rigid but it will be adding padding to my armor and hopefully it will look good.
That about does it for now. Tune in next week. Same Bat time same Bat channel.
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on May 16, 2005 22:29:26 GMT -5
I've found 16 guage steel to make a Kabuto. Will it be strong enough? I've heard people recomending 14 guage steel instead. I've also heard that doing a ribbed multiplate Kabuto will increase the strength. How many plates would i need? I'm thinking it will take around 16 or so but i'm not sure. Also, will this increase the strength of the Kabuto enough? Sixteen gauge is a little light. If you have enough overlap and/or you turn the edge to make a ridge - it will help the rigidity and weight. The number of plates depends entirely on you. I cannot offer any direct advice as I haven't finished my 16ga multi-plate. The problem with straight bar stock is that the lames in the Okegawa dou are not straight rectangles. They have a compound curve and it is easier to start with pieces that have some of that curve cut into them. I have seen them in the manichira. I have seen them laced into the kusari on the outside of the kote. I have seen padded sode made of kikko laced into fabric. I have not seen kikko sewn into kote. Hopefully you will get some answers from more experienced voices on all these question. |
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Post by Kitadatedenka on May 17, 2005 9:06:52 GMT -5
16 ga. is a little light, but servicable. My original 16 ga. kabuto lasted for quite some time. But it won't last forever. This assumes SCA combat.
The aluminum will work, but really is too thick and heavy. I think that I've never used over 12 ga. It is true that dead straight lames don't produce the highest quality armour, but will work. If you want to do better, and still use straight pieces, you can pound along the edge of a lame, thinning it slightly, to get it to curve. More complex, yes, but the result is better. Like everything, more work results in more payoff. Also, I believe that steel takes paint/powdercoating somewhat better than aluminum. I don't think any of the anodized finishes look all that much like lacquer. Just means you ahve to be careful about which paint you use.
I wouldn't bother with making kikko out of foam, and like Otagiri-dono says, I haven't seen it on kote. Besides, closed cell doesn't wash too well, and you WILL want to be able to wash your kote. If you pad them, use batting or something. I use 4 layers of moving blanket quilted to within an inch of its life. And 3/4" is a little big, but I'm not so qualified to discuss size.
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Post by Hiroda Ujio on May 17, 2005 9:57:42 GMT -5
I wear an eight panel made from 14 gauge (overlap only) . The bowl doesn't have anything resembling a dent in it.
The "bill" on the other hand is starting to get pretty bad but adding a piece of bar stock should take care of it.
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Post by Date Saburou Yukiie on May 17, 2005 15:06:07 GMT -5
The kabuto and somen I make are either 16ga or 14ga depending on the customer. I wear a 16 ga helmet, and have had little trouble out of it. The kabuto I am building for the Yama Kaminari are 16 ga, with the exception of a zunari bachi I am making for one of our fighters.
For kote, I like the quilting method, where I take heavy fabric and run 1/4 inch quilting lines the length of the fabric, and then face it with a pretty material. On the outside, I sew the plates and kusari. I never worry about the hits I take...trusting to a certain degree in my ability to fend off the shots.
Same goes with my brain housing group...
I use 3/4 inch 18 ga hex shaped plates with four holes for kusari, and sew them inside the fabric of the piece for kiko. It has never given me trouble.
Date
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Post by Kinoshita Takemitsu on May 17, 2005 20:18:36 GMT -5
I've done some figuring and the cost and weight of the Aluminium plates would be prohibitive. <sigh> I'm going to have tio go with HDPE Barrell plastic. I'll do some experimenting and see if there's any way to paint it.
For the Kabuto i'm thinking about 12 plates and nearly 1" of overlap. It will have to be tapered near the top. I want to stay away from making ridges. Mostly i don't want to chew up other people's rattan weapons. maybe a rolled ridge could fix that?
this is my thoughts.
glue some darkred fabric down onto the surface. Attach in in the back with something, anything. Paint the fabric until it is smooth and no longer looks like cloth. Does this sound like it might work?
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Post by Nobuhide on May 21, 2005 14:13:16 GMT -5
I've done some figuring and the cost and weight of the Aluminium plates would be prohibitive. whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??? weight of aluminium is prohibitive? what the hell gauge are you using? 4? aluminum is REDICULOUSLY light, most people here if not all build and fight in steel - you just have to learn to move in it. its different than unarmed combat when you wear armor, no matter what kind of armor you have. so go with aluminium or steel, youll thank me when your not having to deal with bruises the size of grapefruits because your plastic armor didnt absorb the force of the blow enough.  |
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Post by Kitadatedenka on May 21, 2005 16:24:31 GMT -5
If you're going to go with HDPE barrels, jsut get black. It is worth it in the long run, and you do consider the long run, right? Paint just doesn't stick well to it.
As for bruising, I wouldn't worry. I have not had a body bruise since I switched to plastic, and I dropped my padding at the same time.
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Post by Kinoshita Takemitsu on May 21, 2005 16:58:58 GMT -5
The aluminium is 3/16 of an inch thick and 2" wide... that means it will take roughly 10 of them or so... trust me they were heavier than i'd want to fight in and more expensive. Also, i've fought in a POORLY made HDPE plastic before and had little to no bruising.
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kenshiro
New Member
Dad, newbie armourer, SCA fighter
Posts: 67
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Post by kenshiro on May 22, 2005 19:13:00 GMT -5
youll thank me when your not having to deal with bruises the size of grapefruits because your plastic armor didnt absorb the force of the blow enough. I have never understood this... I have never seen a plastic suit cause bruises... If you whack some blue foam in it as padding, you got a decent combat suit.. I had my first event this weekend, as an example... There was a fella with plastic legs.. So being the curious fella I am I asked how they were ... He responed by hitting my metal legs with a good blow... Which put a small crese in 16 ge mild. And stung for about 15 minutes.. Then he gave a good blow when I was wearing his plastic legs.. I feel a slight sting but not real pain.. I knew I have been hit with a good blow but no serious discomfort.. |
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Post by Kinoshita Takemitsu on May 22, 2005 20:07:37 GMT -5
The impact absorbancee differance is simple. Plastic flexes and absorbs some of the force. Steel does not and transfers the force of the blow to the padding or to the person. Also Pastic flexes and returns to shape. Steel flexes and stays flexed. Plastic is lighter and requires less matainance but steel is really cool. If i had the money i'd put together a steel kit but sadly i cannot afford it. Plastic is just cheaper.
The designs i have for the Kabuto will have a 1" overlap and rolled ribs. This will present 12 surface areas with apx 1.5" of single layered 16g steel. Do you think this will be strong enough?
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Post by Kitadatedenka on May 22, 2005 20:41:06 GMT -5
It's not cheaper here. Last sheet of 1/8" kydex was 116$ (which is half the price one of my retainers could get elsewhere). A good, new barrel is about $60. A sheet of 16ga was running about $80 last time I checked. Maybe 'free' plastic is more prevalent where you live, but not up here. Steel is easy to get, plastic marginally less so. Then again, I gave up on free material years ago. It's no longer worth my time to mess with unknown material in inconvenient configurations. |
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kenshiro
New Member
Dad, newbie armourer, SCA fighter
Posts: 67
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Post by kenshiro on May 22, 2005 21:22:14 GMT -5
It's not cheaper here. Last sheet of 1/8" kydex was 116$ (which is half the price one of my retainers could get elsewhere). A good, new barrel is about $60. A sheet of 16ga was running about $80 last time I checked. Maybe 'free' plastic is more prevalent where you live, but not up here. Steel is easy to get, plastic marginally less so. Then again, I gave up on free material years ago. It's no longer worth my time to mess with unknown material in inconvenient configurations. Wow I can get 1/8 inch up of HPDE 4x8 foot sheet for 30.00 bucks... Although thats if I pick it up from the warehouse... Frieght shipping is at minium 50 bucks ... As for the barrels..I finally found a place that sells black HPDE barrels... For only 15 bucks... Or you can get the junk un sterilized ones for 3.30 cents... |
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