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Post by Kitadatedenka on May 26, 2005 9:28:23 GMT -5
I guess I should have said 'doesn't look right to me'. Even though I know, intellectually, all the changes that happened during that time, my visual system is locked onto the first few pictures I've seen of suits from the namobucho. So it's narrow-bodied, boxy dou and big sode that say 'nambokucho!' to me, even though that's not universally the style.
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AJBryant
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Post by AJBryant on May 26, 2005 13:07:24 GMT -5
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I have the same problem. There are a few things that I consider "ideal" for several periods, and some other things make me twitch -- even though I know they were there. I forgot to mention another alternative with nanbokucho -- gyoyo. Instead of sode, gyoyo (think shoulder guards like those of standard coats-of-plates) would be doable. If you're doing a nanbokucho style haraate, the only things you need to remember are (1) both front and back tateage are only two lames deep, (2) the suspensory lacing for the kusazuri is the same length as the suspensory lacing from one lame to the next, (3) the watagami are heavily padded, very long, and straight-sided trapezoids. They're very cool. Edited to add: guy with gyoyo -- Effingham
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jo
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Post by jo on May 27, 2005 0:55:38 GMT -5
For Mr. Bryant,
Is there no way to convice you to make a full color book, as this is gorgeous! (except probably donating the money to get it printed :-( )
Jo
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AJBryant
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Post by AJBryant on May 27, 2005 6:35:56 GMT -5
I wish. I'm still hoping we can have a *couple* of pages of color so I can do a lacing pattern chart...
Effingham
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Post by fujiwara on May 27, 2005 22:51:42 GMT -5
That gyoyo guy has a gap down his side...is that normal for a haraate?
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AJBryant
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Post by AJBryant on May 27, 2005 23:22:02 GMT -5
No, cause he's wearing a do maru. Effingham
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Post by Arima Jinsuke on May 28, 2005 1:51:26 GMT -5
That's one of my favorite suits -- partly for the weird lacing choice. Very Nanbokucho. Effingham I mentioned this suit in the "formerly known as Research" forum...I am very curious as to the lacing. I remember reading on your website about lacing with blossoms or fern leaves on it, laced in such a way as to preserve the overall pattern. Also, on Jo's site of wonderful pictures, there are several of a gentleman with armor that is laced in two-tone blue and white lacing arranged specifically to create a patter of zigzags down the armor. I found that stunningly cool. But the suit in question intrigues me even more. The lower lacing appears to be two-tone, laced in a completely random fashion. Was this common, and done in SCA-ish Period? If so, how did they accomplish it? I am guessing that the braid was woven with two or more colors, like the chidori odoshi used as mimi ito in some suits. Was the lacing ever simply dyed in two colors? I think that taking a nice base color (like a medium green, red, or blue) and dying the laces randomly (or not-so-randomly) in a darker version of the base color would give a really nice effect and dress up the lacing quite a bit. It seems VERY difficult to find any suitable lacing material with two colors woven into the braid, so dying seems to be a much easier and more cost-effective method. Again, was anything like this done? I can think of several really nice color combinations that could be done like this. I hesitate to use the term "tye-dye," but that is essentially what this would be. Comments?
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AJBryant
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Post by AJBryant on May 28, 2005 9:41:08 GMT -5
Bingo. ;D
There are a few suits with varieties of chidori ito used for the lacing. It was fairly rare. The sixteenth-century nuinobe do I have here is laced in chidori ito in fact. The uniqueness is one reason I bought it.
As for the rest of the post -- I'm not sure I'm understanding you. There were of course graded color lacing patterns (cf. nioi odoshi and susogo odoshi), but I don't think this is what you're describing.
Effingham
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Post by Arima Jinsuke on May 28, 2005 22:23:57 GMT -5
Bingo. ;D There are a few suits with varieties of chidori ito used for the lacing. It was fairly rare. The sixteenth-century nuinobe do I have here is laced in chidori ito in fact. The uniqueness is one reason I bought it. As for the rest of the post -- I'm not sure I'm understanding you. There were of course graded color lacing patterns (cf. nioi odoshi and susogo odoshi), but I don't think this is what you're describing. Effingham It was late, I doubt I was explaining myself well. What I was trying to phrase as a question was: Did Japanese armorers ever use lacing that was DYED in two colors, as in, on the same strand (as opposed to weaving two colors in as with the chidori odoshi). Sort of a "poor man's" multi-color strand of lacing. I really liked the effect on that suit of armor, but I can't find any suitable, woven, two-tone lacing to replicate it (plus I have already bought the lacing I need for my armor). Would it have been unheard of to take one of the colors I am using, and dye it two-tone? As in, take the blue lacing I have, tie it all up in knots, and drop it in a vat of darker blue dye? I think the final effect would be VERY visually appealing, and would look very much like the chidori-laced suit, albiet more random. Is this outside the realm of possiblity for a period armor? And if it is, do you know of any similar methods they might have used? I could dye the lace in a more regular pattern, instead of randomly...alternating bands of the two blues, for example. But I don't think actual chidori odoshi is an option, at $5 or so a yard from Japan (plus shipping).
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AJBryant
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Post by AJBryant on May 28, 2005 22:53:40 GMT -5
Not that I've ever seen. That would be just weird.
You have to understand that the strands of silk are dyed, and THEN woven into the braid. The use of differently dyed strands is what makes chidori ito. But finished braid isn't dyed.
Effingham
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Post by Arima Jinsuke on May 29, 2005 2:28:13 GMT -5
Not that I've ever seen. That would be just weird. You have to understand that the strands of silk are dyed, and THEN woven into the braid. The use of differently dyed strands is what makes chidori ito. But finished braid isn't dyed. Effingham Thats what I thought. But I felt it necessary to ask, since I don't really have access to real lace made in such a fashion. Shame, really...I think it would end up looking very nice. Thanks for the answer.
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