Yvarg
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Formerly greeneel22
Posts: 198
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Post by Yvarg on May 25, 2005 20:31:48 GMT -5
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AJBryant
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甲冑師 katchuu-shi
Posts: 1,972
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Post by AJBryant on May 25, 2005 21:06:18 GMT -5
Well, Ujiyori's is actually pretty good -- if you discount the arms.
Armorbug's is... um.... an interesting interpretation.
The first one is just.... wrong.
None of them are beyond redemption, but some will require more work than others.
Effingham
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Post by Shintaro Yamamoto Ujiyori on May 25, 2005 21:09:59 GMT -5
Well, being one of the people that posted there, I would say that these people are honestly trying to adapt a suit of japanese armour to SCA standards. As with all sets of armour that are made by professional or novice armourers, they can always stand to be improved. I know that when I was relatively new to the armouring community I made the mistake of critiquing other peoples hand made armour with perfection of the art in mind. Through many years of experience, I found that doing so makes people defensive of their craft and not want to share their progress in the future. I am just saying that we are all progressing and the journey is a long one for all of us, we can't create a masterpiece on the first try. I agree about my arms 100%  The plain fabric kote was a quick fix to finish my suit. I want to take some time to actually make a kote with kusari and plates here in the near future. The leather vambraces and plain fabric kote are only temporary, I swear. |
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Post by Odawara on May 29, 2005 1:48:09 GMT -5
Didnt mention mine Eff?
I guess that lets me know what you think of my rig....LOL
For that matter, you never have really given an opinion of the Yama Kaminari standard issue suits that mine is based on.
Well,
Ansteorra has a rule mandating a solid vambrace, so i am limited there. I will have to make a tsubo kote, and that is a little daunting to me at my current skill level. In the meantime, i wear 14 oz leather vambraces. It isnt strictly speaking, japanese, but it is legal.
Greeneel,
Those are not supposed to be japanese armor. they are attempts at modifying japanese armor to SCA standards and requirements. That will always require some sacrifice of the form.
Like solid knee cops for example, or solid vambraces, bargrills, etc
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AJBryant
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甲冑師 katchuu-shi
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Post by AJBryant on May 29, 2005 9:51:26 GMT -5
Oh, yes I have. You just weren't there to hear it. ;D
Actually, that's the reason I wrote that article for TI about three years ago on using plastic in Japanese armour.
It's one of those things where I'm conflicted. It would be easy to make a fairly decent (or even a good) suit from barrel material. I've seen it done. But *very* few people take the time to look at real Japanese armour before they do, and very few bother trying to actually replicate or duplicat the look of the real thing. Too many people using barrels are trying to copy what is, at its root, an ersatz armour -- thereby getting farther and farther away from the source with each generation of armour. And too many using barrels don't even seem to care enough to eschew the parts of the barrel that don't work (e.g., the parts with the molded-in logos or ridges).
If one needs to use two barrels to get one good suit instead of using even the BAD parts of one barrel, then one should USE two barrels. People are constantly being told that the barrel appeal is they're cheap. Then people should TREAT them as cheap and only use the parts that are good.
So why not follow my option of wearing something solid *under* a cosmetic kote?
Effingham
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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on May 29, 2005 12:00:52 GMT -5
When I look at a thread like this, I look for something cool that other people have done that I haven't thought of or executed. The point of it is to learn what I can do to improve.
Tatsuo Okami: Cool shape to the visor. Good color. Interesting gauntlets. Don't like the plain metal.
Armour Bug: Really cool color. Great kikko on the suneate! Interesting kote fabric. Looks like an alien is eating his hara. Siloflex sword? Hockey tsuba?
Ujiyori: Haidate add to the look. (I did not used to fight with kote. Now I think they are essential for the look. I do not fight with haidate ... but will my new fashion-sense force me to do otherwise?) Best helmet so far (although the little lip on the visor is odd ...) Cool kohaze. Kusazuri hanging just where they need to hang. Is his gauntlet cuff laced together?
Baron Effingham needs to get out and fight more. Look at the fabric in his hakama! Look at the plates in the kote! How did he turn/fake the edges in the upper plates?
Takeda is a little hard to see well. Note how the sode hang protectively while he moves. How?
Dalewyn is a bit hard to see as well. The armour looks good as a whole. Again with the haidate.
Ray's armour has some really neat additions such as the vertical plates on the watagami and the decorative pieces.
What interests me most in Odawara's armour is the gauntlet. If you don't mind me reproducing them, I would love some close ups.
My armour is ill-fitting (by design). The sode seem low. No haidate. The hakama are so baggy they would hide any suneate kikko if I had them. No plates on the upper arm of the kote. Do I fight in waraji?
Nissan gets 'best use of red.' The photo is a little hard to see, but he has great gauntlets.
Oh ... and Date. Drop dead gorgeous. But we all knew that (and now even his King acknowledges it!).
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Post by Odawara on May 29, 2005 12:05:06 GMT -5
Eff,
"So why not follow my option of wearing something solid *under* a cosmetic kote?"
Actually, that is the plan for the Mk1 Mod 2 suit I am designing now. Solid vambraces covered by a cloth Kote with decorative armor plates laced onto it on the forearms and the biceps area. Much like the ones Otagiri-dono makes.
In fact, my plan for my next kit will be for a 5 piece clamshell, much like my current one, but made from lames instead of solid plates, and laced halfway between kebieki and sugake.
same 6 lame Sode (with more rows of lacing)and Kaza-zuri
or would that too be an abomination?
LOL
But yeah, isee what ya mean, if i were to see a plastic armor with a visable LOGO from the barrel, i would indeed cringe.
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AJBryant
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甲冑師 katchuu-shi
Posts: 1,972
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Post by AJBryant on May 29, 2005 14:43:49 GMT -5
What's halfway between "pregnant" and "not"? There is no halfway -- either it's one or the other. Now, mind you, you can space the sugake *really* tightly.... Effingham |
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Post by Kitadatedenka on May 30, 2005 11:22:40 GMT -5
How closely? Cloe enough that you could lace it kebiki is you wanted?
As for logos and such, Koha's dou does have one raised logo left --
2 arrows on the munaita. It looks rather cool if of dubious authenticity. We have since changed to using the tops and bottoms of the barrels for those plates.
And, I cannot get a dou, kusazuri, and sode out of one barrel. Mostly, the molded in ridges waste a couple of lames worth of material. Some of the raised bits can be saned off very adequately. The barrels I get have gallon markers down one side, and that's where I drill my starter holes, so as to not waste the material. I also just found a local used barrel supplier. I need to see if the material is too banged up.
And it looks as though this Thursday I'll start getting pictures of the process, as one of my hairy barbarians is coming down to start one.
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Post by Takeda Sanjuichiro on May 30, 2005 19:54:27 GMT -5
...Takeda is a little hard to see well. Note how the sode hang protectively while he moves. How?... I'll have to work on getting better pics of the armor. My sode are a bit on the long side, and they are laced directly to the plates in the watagami. (Yeah they should have toggles, for that kind of gusuko, but I havn't gotten around to making them). I'm quite please with how they work. In a related note about hanging lamalar armor, a friend of mine in AnTir who fights in a Chinese/Mongolian kit (freaking beautiful too) has noted some people think he is rhino-hiding because of the construction of the thigh protection of his harness. And since I also have Dangly Bits TM (I'll give you the royalty payment when I see you Effingham) he thought to mention it to me. Has anyone been critiqued or accused of rhino-ing because of the kusazuri/haidate? No one has commented yet to me on it, so I am left wondering. -Takeda |
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Post by Please Delete on May 30, 2005 20:02:04 GMT -5
I believe the problem is that the lacing goes the wrong way. In kebiki-odoshi you are going across the armour (because you are using it to lace together an entire lame of sane and then lacing that to the one below it), but in sugake-odoshi you are going up and down the armour, because you are only really adding the lacing in order to hold the lames to each other--not to actually form the lames themselves.
However, there are some armours that have the upper lames laced with sugake-odoshi and the bottom lames with kebiki-odoshi. Personally, I think that is an awesome idea, and wonder if that is what Odawara-dono is talking about?
-Ii
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Post by Please Delete on May 30, 2005 20:28:15 GMT -5
I'll have to work on getting better pics of the armor. Try this: modzer0.cs.uaf.edu/~logan/sca/SpringCrown2005/I'll need to label the pictures better, and I recommend looking in the 'Thumbnails' for the pictures that you might find interesting, as there is no organized page for them at the moment. I have taken Takeda and cropped everything else out in the case of many of the pictures ('Dead_Takeda' and 'Takeda') so that you can look just at him and his armour if you'd like. Granted, most of the shots were from the back. Sorry. -Ii |
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Post by Odawara on Jun 1, 2005 11:16:52 GMT -5
Well, I was thinking of closely spaced sugake, like an inch between rows. That way I can have a more "fully laced" look, and still have the ease of sugake as opposed to the insanity generating Kebiki.
Although, the suit that Kitadatedenka posted on the AA was pretty inspiring in it's spendor.
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AJBryant
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甲冑師 katchuu-shi
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Post by AJBryant on Jun 1, 2005 17:53:51 GMT -5
Well, it's doable, but it sounds kind of insane. There is a suit similar to that that belonged to Hidetada, but it is probably Edo. That close of spacing strikes me as defeating the purpose of sugake odoshi; I'd go for a bit more spacing. Maybe 2".
Effingham
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Post by Odawara on Jun 1, 2005 23:03:54 GMT -5
2 inches sounds better indeed. Now on a five plate calmshell, would all five plates bemade from laced lames? or jsut the front and back? I think i have seen examples both ways
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