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Post by tengumoon on Dec 24, 2008 4:01:15 GMT -5
thank you - I have read that paint test (somewhere?!) not sure if I can get it in Oz tho...
so is that a preference for paint over fabric?
not sure if Iwant to avoid black armour due to the heat or avoid coloured armour due to the obvious target factor
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Post by mrcunningham on Dec 24, 2008 10:28:49 GMT -5
Tengumoon, I would definitely call that a preference of paint over fabric. As for color, the issue will be that plastic is insulating. The color of the plastic shouldn't really be a factor. It'll be somewhat hot. Like almost all armour Another suggestion, if you can't get Krylon Fusion, is to buy "Plasti-Dip" brand spray-on tool dip. It's the same stuff rubber handles on tools are made out of. I'm using it on the inside of my in-progress aluminum armor, with decent results. And if you REALLY want freedom of color choice (black, brown, red, whatever), use gloss spray paint on white canvas you've glued to the plastic. It'll look different than fabric that's dyed whatever color. Should be shinier.
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Post by solveig on Dec 24, 2008 11:55:13 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! The only plastic I have gotten is blue - yeah yeah I know It depends a bit on the specific shade of blue, but the shade is probably unfortunate. Which to do depends entirely upon which piece of armor you are discussing. I do not recommend covering all of your armor in fabric. Sounds OK. However, please try to get good laces. Last I heard, there are some problems getting laces these days.
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Post by solveig on Dec 24, 2008 11:58:18 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I am in Australia Rhino hide doesnt work for me... I have heard other Aussies have had the same problem I thought that "Rhino hide" referred to fighters who do not accept blows. At least that is what it referred to back in AS XI. Somewhere around here I have pictographic "No Rhino" badge. Anyway, the obvious solution for dealing with translucent paint is to use multiple layers starting with some sort of primer layer which is not necessarily your target color. So, for example, you might want to start out with a layer of white or gray paint. This is a good time to pull out a piece of scrap and play around with the paint available to you to see what works.
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Dec 24, 2008 13:49:25 GMT -5
I thought that "Rhino hide" referred to fighters who do not accept blows. It's also the domain name of the website Our Most Honorable Moderator uses. (http://www.rhinohide.cx/tousando/plastic/fusion.html was the link I referred Yamamoto-dono to.)
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Post by tengumoon on Dec 24, 2008 22:20:03 GMT -5
Thank you for everyones advice
Unfortunately I dont think the Krylon paint is available (easily) and I know for sure that something like the Plasti-Dip is also hard to get (I have to try and find a local distributor) as neither are in the obvious places (meaning the local HUGE hardware stores - and I do mean HUGE!) I really wanted some plastic-dip to coat my tabi boots (to make them waterproof and last a bit longer (yes I use them for other things in life *grin*)
Honda-dono - the painting of canvas over plastic - excellent idea thank you As to armour being hot - oh yes I know that already form other life experience - and Oz gets hot especially up in the northern states. Summer is currently averaging between 30 and 35 degree celsius - and humid too!
I am really hoping to have armour that is "different", even more so than just having Japanese kit - any coulr combos that would be good? and are not done? I also plan to put a mon on the front
Lady Solveig - thank you for your input the blue is smurf blue! I was hoping to get black plastic but beggars are not choosers - it is an excellent and cheap start for my armour making learning curve
Why do you not recommend fabric on all of my armour? Either way - I wont be keeping it blue!
I am curious what you mean by "good laces". Are you referring to Japanese traditional ito? or perhaps to appropriate reproduction quality? or simply to the strength? (My armouring is a balance of a number of things - speed to getting on the field and safety of my body, finances available, material available, authenticity and looking good - I think in that order
Laces will simply be the sporting shoe laces I can acquire at the local store - it is cheap and they are strong - thats why I am sticking to black and white at the moment (and I will adjust my sugake to fit the width of the laces I can get) and the dark blue was not in lengths I was happy with - but may still be an option
The painting thing will happen only after I cut out the plastic panels
What I am curious about is what to lace the lames together with before doing the sugake - Effingham on his site recommends either waxed sinew (which I dont have) or perhaps riveting them what sort of rivets should I use? (the lacing will cover them over)
again than you all
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Post by solveig on Dec 25, 2008 0:09:15 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! I see why you want to change the color. Because, to the best of my limited knowledge, Japanese armor only had brocade or other fabric on rather restricted bits of armor. Generally speaking, Japanese armor found in museums has rather prominent lacquered bits. People I know who make armor have complained about the limited availability of reasonobly good laces. What you really want to find is heavy duty lace material on a rather large spool. You really really do not ant to buy hundreds of pairs of shoe laces. Ideally, you should find laces that look, at least from a distance, like Japanese laces. You can buy Japanese ito, but it would undoubtedly be expensive.
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Post by tengumoon on Dec 25, 2008 5:28:42 GMT -5
Ok to explain myself - the only reasons that fabric was an option over plastic (yes I know it isnt period) were : to cover the plastic, since getting appropriate paint for the plastic may be an issue : I have seen others cover plastic with various materials and regardless of authenticity it looks good (better than smurf blue plastic!) : possibly also for the extra strength/hold together quality of putting fabric over plastic (akin to putting fibre tape on arrows)
I am not doing a LOT of lacing, sticking to sugake lacing for a reason! and I am not going top make it all one continuous lacing for the armour as I am going to make it individual lengths for each set of lacing specifically for ease of replacing broken lacing if need
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Post by Please Delete on Dec 25, 2008 12:13:59 GMT -5
Blue plastic is going to be difficult--the paint is probably your best bet. I'd go with simple sugake odoshi for now. I'd probably go with simple attempts to get out on the field, as you will likely want something better later.
Fabric could also be done--you could probably do a do-maru and use a 'printed leather' on the front (I believe there is an armor like that attributed to Yoshitsune--it might be a haramaki), but that requires painting, shaping, AND kebishiki-odoshi in the back, so it is probably a lot more work.
You can do some very nice European suits covered in Fabric, but nothing the Japanese would have run into.
That's why I figure paint is your best route.
A fabric *backing* might not be a bad idea. A black fabric backing to help protect your lacing ties, keep things in proportion, and all in all just make it more comfortable (plus you don't have to worry as much what the back of the plates look like.
Just some thoughts.
-Ii Katsumori
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Post by Kurodachi no Mykaru on Dec 25, 2008 18:25:06 GMT -5
If the only thing you have available is smurf blue plastic, I would recommend a kawazutsumi dou. I have no objections to plastic for SCA japanese combat armour but blue totally stuffs it.
You *could* go through all the processes to coat with material then paint again, but it would be easier and cheaper to get a sheet of kydex in the end I expect.
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Post by Please Delete on Dec 26, 2008 9:30:56 GMT -5
If the only thing you have available is smurf blue plastic, I would recommend a kawazutsumi dou. I have no objections to plastic for SCA japanese combat armour but blue totally stuffs it. Doh! Good catch--the Kawazutsumi dou would be a great idea. It just requires good leather to cover the dou (I'd still recommend a backing, too, and paint to prevent the blue from showing through the cracks.) -Ii
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Post by solveig on Dec 26, 2008 13:56:03 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! : possibly also for the extra strength/hold together quality of putting fabric over plastic (akin to putting fibre tape on arrows) If that is your goal, then you may want to think about putting some sort of tough porous fabric like burlap over your plastic, then applying a plastic compound over that, and then sanding and painting the result. Overall though, I still think that you should put a couple of layers of paint on your plastic and maybe put some sort of closed cell foam on the inside to cover the knots and what naught.
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Post by tengumoon on Dec 26, 2008 20:03:33 GMT -5
I am sticking with mogami do - I want something that really looks Japanese to the gaijin and also the nipponese - and getting good leather here is a real chore here - the leather places are only open during weekdays (when I have to work) and not on holidays or weekends
I will paint the plastic - colours depend on what I can find at the hardware shop Australia is a little backward when it comes to finding supplies for making Japanese Armour!!!
I have drawn out almost 100 plates on the plastic, next step playing with the jigsaw Thats for the Do, the cowards plate, the kusazuri and the sode
barely enough barrel space left over for watagami so I think the haidate and suneate and kote and the guruwa will have to find another barrel!
I will post a pic when I have cut them all out!
I am getting all excited about this project - but for now it wil lhave to wait as I have a high from the Sharpie marker pen and its time to take my sons shopping in the after Xmas sales!
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Post by tengumoon on Dec 27, 2008 23:40:44 GMT -5
Yay for smurf blue snow - well almost plastic goes "everywhere" when cutting with a jigsaw
So far I have cut out the sode and front and back lames tateage, coward plates and kusazuri still to go
I have been thinking a lot about colours - If I have to paint the plastic then I do have limitless options (well limited by what paint is available and what I can find examples of from period armours)
so far the options are black armour with black and white laces red armour with black and white laces dark green armour with dark blue and white laces (I cant find any examples of this and wonder if the dark green would be ok or not?) Hey I just found one on Effingham-dono's site! Looks like dark green with light green lacing - on second thoughts I think it is all just russet and the photo/reflection of the laces makes it look green *sigh*
what colours can I (historically) choose from for the armour? I am thinking white, black, yellow, red, russet / brown, dark green, dark blue I think my lacing limits are black navy blue and white - unless I can find something really fancy at the big fabric shop
edit to ask about tomegawa: do the sode have tomegawa? (doing mogami sode) are the sode lames laced together tightly liek the Dou? or do they hang loosely?
domo arigato gozaimasu
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Post by solveig on Dec 28, 2008 0:15:18 GMT -5
Noble Cousin!
Greetings from Solveig! Well, my impression is that black and red are the most representative colours out there. You can always go a bit wild with the lacing.
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