Mega Zenjirou Yoshi
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The Scadian formerly known as Lord Drogo Bryce of Middlefordshire
Posts: 175
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Post by Mega Zenjirou Yoshi on Apr 22, 2013 0:39:41 GMT -5
All of the pieces for my new armor have been cut out of three 45 gallon Greek pepper barrels. The plastic is 1/8th inch, thinner than expected. I was assuming it would be the thickness of the black barrel plastic (1/4"). At first this was a disappointment, but there are pros as well as cons, and anyway I just have to roll with it at this point. As a side note, not all, but many of the pieces have lost a lot of their barrel curve in the cutting process. For instance the iyo I've cut so far for the haidate are almost flat. Pieces cut from the domes of the barrels are a little, to a lot thicker, some portions nearing 1/4 inch. These pieces retain their (complex) curve much better. Which is good, because the pieces I have experimented with cutting from the domes need to be more protective. These pieces include the lower lames of the dô, the tateage of the suneate and the kohire lames. Results of heat gun experiments are encouraging. It is easier to get to a workable temperature than the thicker barrel plastic and, once heat shaped and cooled, is more rigid and solid. Definitely makes a difference. Still, don't think I wanna trust my arms to just tsubo kote of this stuff. Until I can get steel tsubo kote, I'll wear hidden vambraces. As far as a lot of the other pieces are concerned, properly padded this will provide adequate protection, a solid shot will still sting a bit, providing impetus to learn to block and not leave openings. Because there probably wont be a lot of heat shaping to the main lames of the dô, I think I may use hidden rivets in its construction. I am also still mulling over the use of hinges. I can see riveted hinges giving this slightly more structure. Still would love hear from anyone who has used hinges in SCA dôs. A quick break-down of my assessment of the Greek pickled pepper barrel plastic. Pros: - Cutting and shaping is much easier and quicker
- Expect it will be easier to get the M in the back of the dô.
- Thickness of lames look like a more accurate representation.
- Easier to make kikko. Which right now is at the top of my list for next winter's hibernation project.
- For future projects, easier to make kozane out of.
- Less weight.
- Subjective, but the color is NICE, with careful selection of cuts, and the use of a good pattern, I think this is going to be handsome armor.
Cons: - less blunt impact protection.
- More flexibility means harder to get a paint to adhere. (Not as much of a concern as it once was. This color is growing on me.)
- Will most likely have to incorporate more stealth armor and padding.
Curious if it will be less durable, or require more maintenance than the thicker barrel plastic?
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Mega Zenjirou Yoshi
New Member
The Scadian formerly known as Lord Drogo Bryce of Middlefordshire
Posts: 175
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Post by Mega Zenjirou Yoshi on Apr 22, 2013 21:55:33 GMT -5
Here is the back of the dô. I'm planning on ryo awase do, in either nuinobe or dangae do style. The front is cut, somehow none of the pics of it turned out. and a couple kusazuri (they are all cut, but wouldn't all fit in the frame.) Sode, is planned to be tsubo, which can be seen from the kanmuri ita nodawa A very fuzzy picture of the kohire Suneate, in desperate need of some heat-forming tsubo kote, the pieces I have been experimenting with heat-forming Two full rows of haidate plates (this shows twenty, or half of one side, I have all 80 cut, which according to my humble math and Sengoku Daimyo should be the right amount) and then here's a shot of the rice braid, and shoe laces I plan on using as mimi ito. Yes, I know the mimi ito is too thin, but I think using the patterned lace a little too thin, will look better than just using the off-white. Now to start plotting and making holes. Original plan was just to drill them, but looking at the pieces, the full scope of that plan hits home. If I can't borrow a Whitney punch, I may have to buy one, for sanity's sake.
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reichmann
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Fish Fingers and Custard
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Post by reichmann on Apr 23, 2013 6:00:59 GMT -5
I was wondering about your comment on hole punching, do you have a drill press? In particular a small benchtop job with adjustable speed would be great for cutting through that en-masse. Plus punching alot of holes is alot of work and the material is quite soft I would assume. A nice sharp cobalt drill bit (doesnt have to be, I just love cobalt ) on the lowest setting to prevent shredding of the plastic should do nicely. On a side note I'm liking the texture on the plates, looks almost like treated buffalo hide hope that silver marking comes off though One other thing, can you please link me the templates for that Do, its the same style I'm after Keep up the great work! Regards, Reichmann
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Mega Zenjirou Yoshi
New Member
The Scadian formerly known as Lord Drogo Bryce of Middlefordshire
Posts: 175
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Post by Mega Zenjirou Yoshi on Apr 23, 2013 6:50:20 GMT -5
Reichmann, All of the patterns used were from Sengoku Diamyo site. The dô patterns are on this page: www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.ch07.htmlOn the right hand side of the page there will sometimes be a gold rectangle interspersed with the text. Those are links to patterns. This dô use the new style front and back. www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/graphics/patterns/NewDoFrPattern.PDFwww.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/graphics/patterns/NewDoRPattern.PDFI have access to a drill press, but I'm thinking a hand held punch like a Roper Whitney jr. will make quicker work of it, with less clean up. I'm just guessing here, but I think it will be easier to use on already shaped pieces, as well. I want to wait to punch holes until the plates are all formed, to avoid distortion of the holes, and ensure they line up properly. The silver is a silver sharpie marker. I hope it comes off, too!
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Lash
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perfection isnt an end result but a path to walk upon with your eyes closed.
Posts: 422
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Post by Lash on Apr 23, 2013 12:49:43 GMT -5
the one problem with the whitney is you cant see the exact spot you punch due to the over hang of the nose . if your edges are not exactly square on your material your guage wont work . i actually grinded the nose of my whitney down to where i could see what i was doing. you may want to explore the idea of a hot wire hanger punch . or as stated above a good drill bit . practice on a scrap piece . i preferred the drill press on my old armor but unfortunatly it was craptastic at best . better to take your time will a screw gun or punch to insure a good quality symetrical group. do alot of practice lacing and drilling before hand so you can avoid the railroad track X's but still have good strength in the center of your knots as the holes get closer together the center weakens . depending on your fighting style this could be an issue. your patterns look really good by the way !!!! you can polish your pieces once your all done shaping with some 400 grit sand paper and some elbow grease to remove any scars or marker lines.
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Lash
New Member
perfection isnt an end result but a path to walk upon with your eyes closed.
Posts: 422
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Post by Lash on Apr 23, 2013 12:53:07 GMT -5
something else i just noticed if this is going to be an sca suit you may have to wear a dog collar gorget as the nodawa you have here would not count as a good throat protection but add the 2 together and it works very well. dont forget to add another lame to the back of the nodawa to protect your 3rd vertibrae.
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Mega Zenjirou Yoshi
New Member
The Scadian formerly known as Lord Drogo Bryce of Middlefordshire
Posts: 175
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Post by Mega Zenjirou Yoshi on Apr 23, 2013 21:04:52 GMT -5
Lash-dono, Though I think I get your meaning, I'm interested to hear more about this hot wire hanger punch. Rifling through my tool drawer I found a leather punch I forgot I had, which did ok on some scraps, so I may start with that. It certainly required less oomph than cutting up the barrels with tinsnips. Still I need to shape those plates that need shaping, finish up the edges, and create some type of template for the hole patterns for all the various pieces. Yeah, I have a gorget in 1/4" black plastic, that is ugly as sin but built like a tank. Hopefully the nodawa will distract the eye from it.
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reichmann
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Fish Fingers and Custard
Posts: 18
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Post by reichmann on Apr 28, 2013 21:28:46 GMT -5
I'm looking forward to seeing this kit assembled, any luck with the Zunari Kabuto?
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Mega Zenjirou Yoshi
New Member
The Scadian formerly known as Lord Drogo Bryce of Middlefordshire
Posts: 175
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Post by Mega Zenjirou Yoshi on Apr 28, 2013 21:55:44 GMT -5
I've got a deposit with Brennain (that's his handle on the Armour Archive, don't recall if it is the same here) for a zunari kabuto, which I believe he has begun. He told me up front that it may take awhile as he is not a full time professional armorer and has a life and kids. So do I, and I've got all the rest of my armor to finish, before I can field the kit.
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Post by roninpenguin on Apr 29, 2013 1:34:23 GMT -5
Brennen is a good guy. I know he has at least one Zunari in the pipe but I don't know if it is yours. He had the frame done as of a day or so ago.
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Mega Zenjirou Yoshi
New Member
The Scadian formerly known as Lord Drogo Bryce of Middlefordshire
Posts: 175
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Post by Mega Zenjirou Yoshi on Apr 29, 2013 8:10:15 GMT -5
So I've continued my shaping experiments with the tsutsu kote plates, and begun playing with my suneate plates. I started out just using a heat gun, but after using a propane torch to finish some edges, have progressed to using it for shaping as well. I've also begun working with a large bowl of ice water and some towels beside the working space to quench pieces as soon as I have an alteration I like. The kote plates have mainly just had some edge finishing done. Some of the rolled edges look pretty good, and some honestly look at little rough. That's OK, mentally I designated the kote plates as guinea pigs a while ago. Still need to fine tune the shaping, particularly on the right one, where curves are a little severe. I will probably accentuate the lips on the edges of the plates some more, and make them cleaner looking. The suneate, as you could most likely tell from earlier pictures, were cut with the curve running the wrong way, due to space constraints on the barrels. So, the first step with them was flattening, and creating a curve perpendicular to the original. That's been done to both right and left. The right has had more shaping done to fit the form of my leg, and make the plates fit together better. Still needs more work on that front, but I'm happy with the direction so far. Before beginning this project I had done a little bit of shaping to 1/4" black plastic barrel, just using a heat gun. Using the propane torch and quenching in ice water is definitely speeding up the process. This is especially true as I like to work slowly and gradually, bending the piece just a bit and then letting it set, then doing another bend. The torch gets the plastic to workable temp quicker, and the quenching cools it down enough that the next slight bend can be done in matter of minutes rather than the next night.
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Lash
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perfection isnt an end result but a path to walk upon with your eyes closed.
Posts: 422
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Post by Lash on Apr 29, 2013 12:09:27 GMT -5
you can also heat the plastic on one side then quench it on the other to cause a natural curve due to the cold side contracting. i got pretty good at it enough that most bends you dont have to touch the material at all . you could probably practice on some scraps. i heat one side first then try to only dip the other side half the depth of the piece so 1/8'' on a 1/4'' piece and watch it curve.
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Mega Zenjirou Yoshi
New Member
The Scadian formerly known as Lord Drogo Bryce of Middlefordshire
Posts: 175
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Post by Mega Zenjirou Yoshi on May 1, 2013 22:50:31 GMT -5
So after much deliberation, this is what I have come up with for odoshi planning.
I am going to do a dangae do with the tateage in sugake, and the nagagawa in hishinui. The dangly bits will be sugake and those lames will scalloped in a lame attempt at kiritsuke iyo zane.
Odoshi on the do will be ivory. Dangly bits will be in light blue, with white hishinui.
I am pretty set on the odoshi styles I want to use and where, still on the fence about color distribution. What was outlined above was what I've come up with that seems most plausibly period while still tickling my fancy. But I'm not crazy about it. It has occurred to me that kebiki odoshi might be a hair more forgiving on hole alignment, and open up some choices to mix colors. It would also make my kiritsuke iyo zane slightly more convincing. But it ups the labor on the whole kit quite a bit. But, since I have whole punch now, it would be easier...
Of course once I start thinking about that, then I think about doing the whole do in kiritsuke iyo zane and doing a nuinobe dô... Ok so maybe I haven't totally nailed down my odoshi plans. But believe it or not, I am concerned with being too ambitious with what is basically my first suit of armor. Plus, I know in a year or two, I will be itching to do a new suit...
The spacing between the center of hole clusters will be 2", since I am using 1/2" odoshi, that will yield about equal amounts of empty space and lacing in the sugake portions. This basically works out to 5 rows on the tateage and sode, and 3 rows on the kasuzuri. If I were to do sugake on the nagagawa it would have 9 rows.
I am going to play with using a technique Raito recommends on an old Armour Archive thread for plotting the holes using masking tape and graph paper. Hoping that gives me enough reference points for accurate hole punching. My punch has arrived, and I took Lash's advice to heart and have been punching some scrap. Enough to realize that I need some type of crutch to help get my holes lined up accurately.
I also procured some rounded leather punches for doing belt ends, which I want to use to create the effect of kiritsuke iyo-zane.
Questions: Nothing sounds fishy in the above plans does it?
Opinions on any of this in general?
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Mega Zenjirou Yoshi
New Member
The Scadian formerly known as Lord Drogo Bryce of Middlefordshire
Posts: 175
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Post by Mega Zenjirou Yoshi on May 4, 2013 21:33:29 GMT -5
Been playing with the hole punch, very nice tool, but it is going to take some practice to get consistent rows of holes. The picture above is the first test piece that was close enough (spacing between the rows is off), that it was even worth trying a lacing test. Speaking of which, more practice lacing is definitely needed. This was a piece of scrap cut to the second from the top kusazuri pattern. These will be the color scheme mentioned above, but I wanted to see what all the lace looked like. After doing this test and reexamining so historical exemplars, I have decided to go for four rows of sugake on these pieces. Any feedback is welcome. Lash-dono, domo arigato gozaimasu, for the advice on practicing hole punching and lacing.
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Post by roninpenguin on May 5, 2013 0:11:52 GMT -5
Just a reminder that the pucker for the lace needs to go on the inside so your lacing looks fuller. I don't know if you were not worried about it because this is a practice piece or not, but I figured I would point that out.
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