My Armor...in the making...

[Yvarg]

i am currently obsessed with making japanese armor. i am trying to make a full suit and would like as many tips as possible. and just so u have an i dea of wut i can and cant do/afford: im only a freshman in high school and i dont have much money. I am workin mainly off of Sir Ogami Akira's instructions ( www.yamakaminari.com ), but i am modifying parts to simplify it as i cannot sew or lace. i have alreadry screwed up one full dou by not getting the paint job right so i am pretty much starting from scratch. I am not involved in the SCA but i would like to make my armor so it would be acceptable in the SCA without having to wear european elbow/knee cops underneath my japanese stuff. Any help would be appriciated. Thanks.

[Yvarg]

here are the pictures of the materials that i have so far and some progress ive made:

the dou (unhinged and lifeless ):


the face armor (cant remember if its a menpo or not):

^this is just a rough outline, im not even sure if i will use it or not....

the leather backing for the haidate plates and the shorts i will rivet the leather to:




the leather backing for my suneate:


the shirt i will use to make my kote and wakibiki hybrid:


the splint plates for my kote (unpainted):


me in my old dou
front:


back:


sry if the pictures' quality isnt good. any questions/comments/ advice would be apprieciated ;D

[BigMek]

well that sure is aaaloot of red

dosnt look to bad! is it your very first armor?

[Yvarg]

yes it is my first JAPANESE armor project, i have a few other european ones...and about the red, there will be more gold when im done im just not quite there yet....

[Otagiri Tatsuzou]

greeneel22 said:

i am currently obsessed with making japanese armor. i am trying to make a full suit and would like as many tips as possible. ... I am not involved in the SCA but i would like to make my armor so it would be acceptable in the SCA without having to wear european elbow/knee cops underneath my japanese stuff. Any help would be appriciated.

Just to address SCA armour ...
(1) Plastic menpo will not be legal in the SCA
(2) It looks like the dou is currently held together with brass paper fasteners - if so, that won't survive SCA combat.
(3) Most SCA fighters use European knees and elbows under their armour.
(3a) I don't think there is any actual Japanese kote that would be SCA legal.
(3b) You could modify an SCA bazauband to be like a Japanese tsubo-kote that would be SCA legal without requiring an elbow. More on this below.
(4) Tsubo-suneate with the full solid knee could be modifed to be SCA legal if the knee was not rigidly attached to the suneate. The problem with solid knee/suneate combo is that there is a gap over the top of the knee when you bend it. By making the knee cop not rigidly attached to the 'greave', you could then attache the knee cop in such a way that it stays with the knee as it moves. I am thinking of a leather band between the knee cop and the top of the 'greave'.


Tsubo-Gote (not SCA legal for elbows):
rhinohide.cx/daimyou/daimyou54/daimyou54.web.infoseek.co.jp/H258/index.html

Bauzuband (not Japanese):
www.armourarchive.org/patterns/bazubands_wma/

Tsubo-suneate (not quite SCA legal)
rhinohide.cx/daimyou/daimyou54jp/daimyou54jp.web.infoseek.co.jp/H849/IMG_5731.JPG
(you would need to make the knee-greave joint flexible and use the type of knee with extended wings)

I hope that I have convinced you that it is easier to use the under-armour method, but that it is possible to go for external protection that at least has some basis in Japanese armor.

[Yvarg]

^thank you for the tips ( im not too familar with the SCA rules) and my armor is held together by "speedy leather rivets" not paper fasteners:

kind of like this:
www.tandyleather.com/prodinfo.asp?number=138311&variation=&aitem=55&mitem=61

[Ryokai]

For your helmet, since Otagiri-dono pointed out that your plastic menpo wont fly, you might want to check out Effingham-dono's site (www.sengokudaimyo.com) it has all kinds of wonderful guides for creating your SCA leagal armour necesities. If you intend to go ahead and do metal working though you will need access to some fire as well as a basic set of armouring tools, auto body working tools are what I use since I used to work with my father restorinig pre 1940's automobiles. Most auto shops cary body working kits, and you can find them on line all over the place. Eff's site gives you a better outline on what sort of tools you will need than what I can provide you.

[OgamiBusho]

It looks like you're off to a very fine start!
I'm glad my plans and instructions have helped you.

The one thing I really would recommend, though, is scrapping the rivets and switching over to lacing. (Yeah, it will cost more, but you can buy them over time so it won't hurt so much.) And the truth of the matter is that over time the finish of the rivets will wear off and the little buggers will rust on you.

If I can help you at all, please feel free to contact me (or any of the other loonies on this list, for that matter).

And should you ever decide to give the SCA a try, you might find that you'll like it. Where else can you beat someone with a 3 1/2 pound club and not get arrested?

-Ogami

[Yvarg]

^thnx for the advice from everyone. so this is the Sir Ogami Akira i have heard so much about...anyways, as i have mentioned, i am horrible with lacing and i will continue with the rivet until i find a method that is as easy and looks better.

PS: i would love to join the SCA but i dont know much about it . One question i have is: Is there a Japanese portion of the SCA or do u choose wut type of fighting u want to do and they mix European and Japanese on the field?

[Yvarg]

i forgot to add a pic of the old skateboarding helmet i will be converting to a kabuto...hopefully


it originally had some closed-cell foam inside, but after many years of sweat from skating the foam got hard . i will be replacing it with some weird pink foam my mom brought home from her work....

[Otagiri Tatsuzou]

greeneel22 said:

PS: i would love to join the SCA but i dont know much about it . One question i have is: Is there a Japanese portion of the SCA or do u choose wut type of fighting u want to do and they mix European and Japanese on the field?

To really get to know the SCA, you should visit a local fighter practise - see the combat and check over some armours. But here is some reading material:
www.sca.org/chivarts.html

The SCA's core is medieval Europe. Japanese samurai are considered guests within a European context. Sometimes we are welcome guests ... sometimes unwelcome.

Someday, perhaps, we can create an organization outside of, but compatable with, the SCA.

[Saionji Shonagon]

Dear "Greeneel"

For a first try at armoring, I'm impressed. BTW, if memory serves, I think you have to be 18 to fight heavy, but many kingdoms have youth fighting programs with boffers. (Oh, gentlemen and ladies of the list who actually fight, please correct me if I'm mistaken.)

Otagiri said:

(3) Most SCA fighters use European knees and elbows under their armour..*

European knee and elbow cops provide really good protection - and you can hide an entire fishing village in a decent pair of hakama, so who's going to see a little gaijin armor?

Seriously, if you're going to do SCA fighting, realize that it's a full contact martial art with sticks. We don't want you to get broken. If you show up at a practice or event and the marshal doesn't think your armor is safe, he's not going to let you play.

You are so lucky to have found this list. We have a lot of very talented folks here who've done and are doing "state-of-the-art" armors for SCA use. The best part is, they're all very willing to share what they know and help you. Be sure to browse some of the older posts in the armor section, because a lot of the guys have included pictures.

Welcome - and Happy New Year. It's now the Year of the Rooster.

Makiwara


*moderator fixed quote

[Hiroda Ujio]

I definately agree with makiwara, most of what i wear on my person during combat is modern equipment. I just hide it under my hakama and kosode.

I wear baseball arm protection (aka batter's arms) which by themselves are SCA legal, and street hockey goalie knee and shin guards which are also SCA legal. My kote and suneate are purely cosmetic and serve no purpose other than to round out the kit.

Hiroda Ujio

[Date Saburou Yukiie]

GreenEel,
Welcome and Happy new year...

I would like to submit that learning to make most things, learning the skills needed to do things like lacing and riviting is not terribly hard...In fact, making something properly, the way it should be made is sometimes easier than "re-engeneering" something that was intended for something else.

Sir Ogami, whom you have already "met" here on the list, is my boss. He drills in us the importance of continually striving to make things look just a little better...and when that project is done...we jump right in and try something harder.

Take, for example, Saiaiko-hime's deer fur kegutsu. (check elsewhere on this forum) She has done a fine job on them, and we are all proud of her...yet she already has many more projects in the works...

There are lots of great sites on the web with usable information...with some careful reading, and a little experimentation, you may find learning more about the items you are building to be enjoyable.

I am the first person to agree with the idea of "creative" anachronism...with a strong emphasis on "creative..."
My first armor for SCA use was made from the discarded bell ends of pvc drainage pipe I found on a construction site at Carnegie Mellon University...I rode thirty miles on a bus with a dozen of these things on my arms, and looked rather like the Michelin Tire Man!

One tends to use what one has...which is good...but do not be afraid to continue to explore.

Your kit, so far, looks very good. Keep up the good work.
Date

[raito]

makiwara said:

Dear "Greeneel"

For a first try at armoring, I'm impressed. BTW, if memory serves, I think you have to be 18 to fight heavy, but many kingdoms have youth fighting programs with boffers. (Oh, gentlemen and ladies of the list who actually fight, please correct me if I'm mistaken.)

Very well, I will correct. SCA, Inc. rules says minimum of 16, with the various knigdoms making their own rules. Middle and Northshield allow full combat against a restricted list of opponents (other youth, youth marshall, parent) at 16. Calontir allows unrestricted full combat at 16, as do some other kingdoms.

Boffer starts as young as 6 around here.