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Post by worldantiques on Feb 19, 2011 14:24:02 GMT -5
Being a white guy wanting to do a japanese persona, Thats been going on for a long time.
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Post by Please Delete on Feb 19, 2011 22:50:34 GMT -5
Being a white guy wanting to do a japanese persona, I decided to somewhat mirror William Adams / Blackthorne...a western sailor living in Japan. Being a white westerner, who is also a warrior (I do SCA heavy fighting) I thought Byakko might be a fitting symbol for me. White Tiger...guardian of the west...etc..etc...a few correlations there. Was Will Adams a "warrior"? Never thought of him that way from my readings. Anyway, relating stuff to Byakko isn't bad. Use white in your armor, or decorate the famous sode with the tiger in the bamboo. On the other hand, if you don't want something historical, people can't really stop you. Just don't try to claim something is historical unless you have proof, and don't be offended if not everyone accepts how you are being creative, historically. -Ii
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Post by arashi on Feb 20, 2011 0:05:08 GMT -5
I'm not doing an exact copy of Adams, just using him and the character Blackthorne from Shogun as a basis for the concept of my persona. A sailor from europe living in Japan. I have not finalized any designs for either my helmet or armor at this point, I am still using a cobbled together kit of barrel plastic, sporting goods, and a munitions grade helmet. I have many grand concepts floating about in my head, most of which Im sure once I start laying out to craftsmen, will quickly outstrip my financial means. Even once I have completed my armor, I doubt if I will stop researching the arms and armor of Japan, as it is something I have a strong interest in. As of yet, I have not found anything showing where a menpo was constructed in period that resembled a tiger...but I have also not found anything indicating a reason why they would have refused to make one. A few of the menpo I have run across have some features that at a glance even look similar to tiger stripes, with the creases and wrinkles on the cheeks etc. Some very minor tweaks to the shape of the nose, change the teeth...and that could easily look tigerlike. Not a drastic difference that would make it look less samurai-like, and with many of the menpo designed for intimidation, I would think a tiger would make for a good theme. Arashi
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Feb 20, 2011 9:53:21 GMT -5
Being a white guy wanting to do a japanese persona, I decided to somewhat mirror William Adams / Blackthorne...a western sailor living in Japan. Interesting. I got to hang out with four native Japanese from the Barony of the Far West this week and they all have European personae. They see no need to come up with a persona story explaining why a Viking woman or Venetian grandee look Asian, they just play the game. BTW, they think it is so awesome that I'm being "more Japanese" than they are that they completely outdid me on our little omiyage gift exchange and my truck is currently holding several boxes of festival decorations and other trinkets they brought specifically so I can tart up my camp in Japanese style even more. (I'm not entirely sure what all is in the big crate as I was afraid to unpack it all and not be able to get it back in again. Then the dust storm rolled in yesterday morning and I was running around retrieving miniature kegutsu and suneate from the model armor box that had gotten knocked over....) Marion Zimmer Badly has much to answer for, saddling us with that stupid name. Mutter mumble need tea badly right now. Please pardon my difference of opinion, but there is nothing so gratifying as having established some credibility in the most hidebound and Eurocentricthe oldest kingdom in Our Fair Society because one has tried really, really hard to get things right and educate the barbarians around one, regarding the history and culture of one's chosen persona. (Yeh, go me!) Not to mention making a favorable impression on Japanese-Americans and native Japanese instead of giving the slightest offense at having co-opted their heritage for my hobby. My two sen worth. Need to get on the road shortly, but I felt it was worth saying.
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Post by arashi on Feb 20, 2011 12:00:55 GMT -5
Like it or not, that is part of our group. If you really want a more strict living history experience, there are dozens of other groups out there that would be more than happy to accomodate you.
I am in the SCA for enjoyment, and having my ass ridden by authenticity nazis is not fun. So much so that my usual response to them is to ridicule them with as much of whatever it is about me they seem to find offensive, and/or start nitpicking every aspect of themselves that I can find that isn't period or doesn't match with their persona.
I put far more time, thought, and effort into my SCA persona, garb, and related items than the average person, so having someone shoot me down for something as trivial as some minor cosmetic changes that only 1 person in a thousand (or less) would even notice rather rubs me the wrong way.
Also, just because I haven't found an example of one yet, does not mean that one was never made, nor does it mean they never would have made one. Out of all the information I have read about menpo and japanese armor overall, nothing, anywhere, gives me any reason why they would not have made a menpo look like a tiger if someone had asked for one.
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Post by Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa on Feb 20, 2011 14:21:18 GMT -5
Anyone who gives you any kind of difficulty about portraying a Japanese persona is not being in good faith. Physically, we are who we are. There's a black fellow with a european persona in An Tir who has been knighted, and bringing that up was more than sufficient the few times I have been sufficiently annoyed at hecklers to play that card. If you want, you can just be Japanese, pretend that nothing is wrong, and the people who matter will respect you for it.
Individually-specific "backstories" for SCA personas have always struck me as strange. We're recreating history; that history was made by very important and famous people (who we don't explicitly impersonate), and the huge mass of faceless nobles, which seems to be what we are doing. I prefer doing things that a thousand people did, not that one person might have done.
Arashi, I have a similar take to yours on why I'm in the SCA. I just happen to think that being maximally authentic is fun, and I (like Makiwara) also enjoy having built enough trust with everyone around me that anything strange I show up with is automatically assumed to have been properly researched and period. My favorite SCA moment recently was when I was about to start fighting at a tournament, a local Laurel ran into me, saw my kegutsu, and said "The next time I see you, I want to know where you found those."
One of the cool things about doing a Japanese persona is that we look very distinctive, so everyone will quickly know who you are. The question of what to do with that attention is one that we must each answer for ourselves, but whatever you choose, you will be known for that. Personally, I want to be the guy that people send the newcomers who are interested in Japan to because they trust me.
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Post by kazuyama on Feb 20, 2011 17:13:01 GMT -5
The examples you gave earlier showed many kabuto decorated up, why not try that? The Kabuto was the obvious thing to decorate up to impress everyone, so why not try that?
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Saionji Shonagon
New Member
One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
Posts: 7,240
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Feb 20, 2011 21:31:28 GMT -5
Oh, doggone it, you used the N word. That's even more egregious than incorrect application of the C word. If you ask a question about what is done historically on this board, you're going to get an answer. I'm sorry you didn't like the answer you got. Authenticity is a journey, not a mandate. If you want to wear a galvanized bucket with a smiley face on it on your head, knock yourself out, but be prepared for questions when you walk around in front of people in it. BTW, I'd love to know where I can re-enact Kamakura-jidai Japan in the US besides in the SCA.
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Post by arashi on Feb 20, 2011 22:20:36 GMT -5
When the answer is presented in a snide and holier than though way, your darn right I'm not going to like it.
Responses like...
and
...are not just unhelpful, they are also rude.
A simple...I've never seen one, or they would not have done that because, or just plain silence would be preferable to some of the responses in this thread.
The reactions I have gotten here, you would think I was asking if I could use the Darth Vader samurai armor in the SCA...
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Post by Kurodachi no Mykaru on Feb 20, 2011 23:42:49 GMT -5
Another one. What a waste of f#$king time.
You asked for information from people who actually do real research rather than search the web trying to get approval of your little fantasy idea and didn't like your answer. Now everyone is an evil A-nazi.
And people wonder why I retired from armouring/dealing with these people and Eff tends to be hard to contact.
An individual doing a spot on japanese persona is incredibly rare and draws massive attention, but *no* some of these snowflakes need more. Maybe you can buy C-lo's Grammy costume.
Am I an a$$hole? Damn straight. When someone gets rude with people who work hard to help people who really *want* to do it right, I get riled.
Meh.
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Post by mitsuhide on Feb 21, 2011 4:36:10 GMT -5
I once was rude to some members of this board and because of it one Excellency won't respond to my posts or just doesn't have the answers I seek. I currently wear the ugliest and nastiest blue barrel armour on the planet. But, and its a big one I want to get better and I am currently working on a metal dou-maru, metal suneate and have a helm on order (got update photos today). The people that do the majority of the posting around here are the ones that need to be listened to they know their sh*t. We in the SCA may get away with wearing Norman style bazubands with a samurai get up but we should strive for more. Yeah sometimes we get short or even snide answers but this is the internet dude not a person to person chat. No amount of short sentence to short sentence communication will be able to get our own personal idioms down, try it there isn't enough emoticons known to man.
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Post by mitsuhide on Feb 21, 2011 4:37:04 GMT -5
Who is C-Lo?
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Post by mitsuhide on Feb 21, 2011 4:40:39 GMT -5
This is mean as of June of last year. Attachments:
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Post by Kano Hiroyoshi on Feb 21, 2011 9:37:49 GMT -5
This is mean as of June of last year. lol, you can see me in the background in the far left, in silver and red.
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AJBryant
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甲冑師 katchuu-shi
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Post by AJBryant on Feb 21, 2011 11:30:51 GMT -5
This is mean as of June of last year. Dude, looks good. You've got the proportions and form pretty much down.
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