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Post by solveig on Dec 20, 2008 1:12:51 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! You had stated that money purse was "your translation" Ahh! Well, I was saying that it was my more or less off the cuff translation of the definition given by Kenkyusha Kogojiten. Since the definition was in Japanese, I thought that people would be more interested in a quick English version. However, since it was a translation by moi, I labeled it as such.
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Post by solveig on Dec 20, 2008 1:16:46 GMT -5
Noble Cousin!
Greetings from Solveig! I believe that Baron Edward has pointed out on many occasions that the squared off pocket like sleaves of the modern kimono are themselves modern. Today, people do indeed put things into them. We were taught to do so at tea practice. Specifically, it is where we got rid of used kaishi and stuff like that. Fresh kaishi were kept in the kai (overlapping folds at the front).
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Post by solveig on Dec 20, 2008 1:23:00 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! all a lady of rank should have to carry is her fan. Oh dear! How did you of all people forget about keeping a nice collection of variously coloured paper for poetic musings tucked into the folds of your kai? Yes, you can keep that stuff in a box when you are behind a screen, but while you are on pilgrimage, a boating party, or some similar event? I really doubt that you would ever want to be without. Then again, I suppose that you can always have one of those dashing captains of the gate guards hand some paper over to you when the need arises.
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Post by Imagawa Tadamori on Dec 20, 2008 3:40:53 GMT -5
Very cool. Nice find. I know we've previously kicked around whether or not inro are period; it's nice to see items like this that "help the cause", so to speak. I love my two inro and I enjoy wearing them in garb. - Imagawa
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Saionji Shonagon
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Dec 20, 2008 12:18:53 GMT -5
Then again, I suppose that you can always have one of those dashing captains of the gate guards hand some paper over to you when the need arises. But of course! How else is one to have a legitimate reason to chat up a complete stranger while outside the gates?
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Post by Suzume on Dec 20, 2008 16:54:19 GMT -5
Spoken Written like one who has never dropped "whatever you needed" all over the floor. Been there, done that - precisely once. Down the front of your kosode is a bit more secure - you can't really tuck much into a pre-17th century obi, but then, all a lady of rank should have to carry is her fan. heheheh..I was truly born in the wrong era. Now I get.."Hun, can you carry my cellphone? and sunglasses? and camera? Well... you have a PURSE! I don't!"
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bovil
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Post by bovil on Dec 20, 2008 17:10:58 GMT -5
Greetings from Solveig! I believe that Baron Edward has pointed out on many occasions that the squared off pocket like sleaves of the modern kimono are themselves modern. Today, people do indeed put things into them. We were taught to do so at tea practice. Specifically, it is where we got rid of used kaishi and stuff like that. Fresh kaishi were kept in the kai (overlapping folds at the front). That's mixing things up a bit. Square-corner kosode sleeves are definitely a modern kimono thing, and they're decidedly unfeminine (although as a women grows older, along with sleeve-hang shrinking so does the radius of the cuff seam curve). Round-corner kosode sleeves don't appear to be gender-specific in pre-1600 garments. There are plenty of examples of men's kosode with rounded cuff-seams for SCA periods, and often in very large radii, up to the full length of the sleeve. Unless I'm mistaken, though, the armsceye (for lack of my knowledge of a more culturally appropriate term) seam is somewhat consistent between modern kimono and earlier kosode construction. Even if they were fully-attached, men's kosode sleeves often had a seam-line at the body edge that went up into the sleeve, creating a pocket. Women's kosode, much like modern kimono, had a loose hanging portion that wasn't stitched closed. Osode, of course, regardless of gender, are wide-open at both ends.
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Post by Noriko on Dec 20, 2008 18:02:23 GMT -5
I just gave up and carry my purse- even though it's black leather and simple as can be, it's screechingly non-period but I have a lot of things to carry. OTOH, I believe Makiwara explored using an 'amulet case' as a purse, but I've found that it is a bit too small for me (I can't get my whole wallet in there- I'd have to pick out just the credit cards and cash I'd want to carry and I don't feel secure that way). I had a cute little basket I used to carry but it is kind of bulky, though now that I bought a luggage I can get garb into ..... ;D
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bovil
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Post by bovil on Dec 20, 2008 18:50:02 GMT -5
(I can't get my whole wallet in there- I'd have to pick out just the credit cards and cash I'd want to carry and I don't feel secure that way) I've worked down to three keys and one alarm fob on my "regular" keyring (it helps that each motorcycle key has a dedicated keyring so there's not a big dangling mass). I have not been able to pare down my wallet yet. I need a divisible wallet where I can easily trim back to cash, ID and one credit card, leaving all the crap (like membership cards, extra credit cards and such) in the removed segment. I expect that my wallet might fit in something the size of the inro that Saionji-dono posted about, but since the British Museum can't be bothered to post dimensions that's pure conjecture.
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Post by Henmei on Dec 20, 2008 19:38:31 GMT -5
I expect that my wallet might fit in something the size of the inro that Saionji-dono posted about, but since the British Museum can't be bothered to post dimensions that's pure conjecture. The page says "Length: 9.000 cm," and it appears about as wide as it is high. Even if it wasn't divided into three compartments there's not much hope of fitting a wallet inside.
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Saionji Shonagon
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One dreamed of becoming somebody. Another remained awake and became. (Found in a fortune cookie.)
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Post by Saionji Shonagon on Dec 20, 2008 19:43:51 GMT -5
Suzume-hime, think about trading "Hon" in on a bodyguard who will be honored to carry things for you. (I miss Fujimaki, though that is one of the more trivial reasons....) I need a divisible wallet where I can easily trim back to cash, ID and one credit card, leaving all the crap (like membership cards, extra credit cards and such) in the removed segment. Andy-dono, you just described my "event wallet." The half a dozen discount club cards for various stores, library card, key card for the office, random business cards, deposit receipts and book of stamps do not need to come along for the ride. They stay in my much battered, in-need-of-replacing everyday wallet. The event wallet appeared in this photo, and is just big enough for cash, driver's license, SCA membership card, my check card and another credit card: www.wodefordhall.com/kakemamori9.jpgMost inro are pretty darn small. I can't imagine being able to put much more than a few coins or maybe some medicine in one.
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Post by Noriko on Dec 20, 2008 19:54:07 GMT -5
Ah, guess I need to get an 'event' wallet because usually the whole kit and kaboodle comes along! Granted, this is from someone who calls her messenger bag a 'purse'.
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Post by solveig on Dec 20, 2008 21:02:55 GMT -5
Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Ah, guess I need to get an 'event' wallet because usually the whole kit and kaboodle comes along! Granted, this is from someone who calls her messenger bag a 'purse'. I got a Timbuk2 Messenger Bag the last time I wore out my small back pack. I also have a small shoulder bag. Sometimes it lives inside the messenger bag. The messenger back is really really spiffy. It's got a padded laptop compartment, a cell phone pocket, places to stick pens and pencils, &c. &c. I love the thing. While actually at an event, I try to avoid carrying around much of anything, except maybe my car key and my inhaler. Oh. And, Squeek! Squeek! to your rats. I may be getting a kitten soon!
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Post by Please Delete on Dec 20, 2008 22:31:50 GMT -5
If you need something to carry things in, what about a wicker box and furoshiki around it. While I hadn't paid much attention, the recent Shosoin exhibit had several wicker items from the Nara period on display, and I've seen several other examples--they appear to be in use at least through the Edo period (and likely beyond, but I haven't checked). Of course, extant examples are difficult to find because they aren't exactly high-status items that would be kept in pristine condition, but two simple rectangular or cylindrical woven bins that fit into each other (forming a box), then wrapped in a furoshiki, could provide a nice 'purse' (i.e. something to carry lots of stuff in). For all the stuff you need quick access to, my answer is to hang it in a pouch around my neck, under my clothes. It holds my ID, my membership card, a credit card, *maybe* my keys (if I'll need them), some cash, and a sachet of incense. I find it very useful for when I have to deal with things that require something modern. Otherwise, I put my 'stuff' in a handy to get to place and try to take just what I need. I will occasionally use the sleeves, or the space between the folds of my clothes, if I need to.
I believe inro are pretty much for 'medicines'. I've always figured their popularity probably had something to do with the introduction of snuff and tobacco (or similar things), but I haven't studied it enough to be sure.
-Ii Katsumori
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Post by Noriko on Dec 20, 2008 22:43:43 GMT -5
Hmn, I like this idea very much!
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