Accessories Question

[Imagawa Tadamori]

Ok, the $64,000 question - how do people carry stuff with them? Inro are post-period, and I've never seen anyone using pouches, bags, etc.

I want to carry my wallet, car keys, and cell phone with me, as well as have a little room to carry any little bits & pieces that I might buy from a vendor. I don't need anything huge; something 2.5x5x8" would be a good size.

Suggestions?

- Imagawa

[Noriko]

I used to use a cute little basket with a handle and a lid but it is incredibly clunky. Now a days, I usually just use my shoulder bag- it's black, leather and very very simple- no ornamentation at all. Not period but I figure it's unobtrusive enough.
The historically accurate answer would be to get a servant and have *them* carry your things

[Water_Tengu]

inro are not in period???
i thought they were?

they are on effingham-dono's site

[Takeda Sanjuichiro]

intellectual said:

inro are not in period???
i thought they were?

There seems to be some disagreement on inro. From what I have been able to tell, inro did exist in period, but not in the sterotypical form we see today, the normal form seems to have evolved in the Edo period.

My personal feeling is that they were a simple container that were not too embellished, and was not worn openly (at least by the samurai and nobility) In the Edo period you have many more suptuary laws, and I feel that it is at this time the simple inro evolved into it's more characteristic decorative form, that was then worn openly, so as to display ones wealth (sorta like a watch chains and fobs, simple at first, but increasingly more ornamented and openly worn)

Period examples are tiny, and from the few that I have seen are either cylidrical, or rectangular; bare wood, or simple lacquer. The cords on these (when still surviving) are longer than the later inro, are much more simply attached, and lack any sort of netsuki... I figure this is because they were worn round the neck like an amulet or insense pouch. I speculate these early inro were an extension of "amulets" and "incense amulets" , basically a small container for carrying a medicine (a small dose) or some insense. Note this is my personal speculation based on exmples I have seen, not from a definitive work on the subject.

Modified to add: Additionally I do not know, if they were called inro pre-edo or not so that might be another reason for the discrepancy. I.e. "yeah they are pretty juch the same thing, but back then they were called "XYZ"".

By the late Edo period, you have some that would be big enough to hold a man's wallet, or a set of keys, but not both.

Men can get away with carrying their modern essentials either in their kosode (just tuck it in off to the side, if your obi and hakama are tied properly, it will be a nice snug fit and the stuff should not try to hide behind your back. If you have bigger or bukier things to worry about, tie a long stringed drawstring pouch to your obi, and wear it inside your hakama. (word of warning: do not put a heavy object like a cell phone in there, they tend to migrate to the front as you walk, and then smack into "things" if you get my meaning)

Another option is to wear long form fundoshi (or a modified setup) that has a pouch sewn into the "bib" section... think of it as a chest/belly bag. It's hidden under the kosode, can keep ya pretty warm in the cooler months, and offers a nice secure place for incidentals. Another alternative is to wear a sporran arrangement inside your hakama. this also works, but can be subject to the smacking into things problem. Interestingly some armors have a pouch attached to the back of the very front kusazuri... It's an armored sporran.

(Eff, is the kusazuri pouches from later period, or an Edo only affectation... some of the armors I have seen with them are pre-edo, but I have never gotten around to asking you if that was one of those added on items during restorations.)

As far as pouches and bags being non-Japanese, is not true. Those of the privledged classes, did not openly carry those things, they may have had them, but they would be smaller, and hidden away. Larger items would be carried in some fasion by a servant... they can be loaded up with all sorts of goodies.

-Takeda

[Saionji Shonagon]

I almost never carry my cell phone at events. Once I'm there, it gets put on silent and stashed. I do tend to stuff a surprising amount of things down inside my kosode front.

Furoshiki (wrapping cloths) work for carrying some items. I've even used furoshiki to transport books to A&S classes.

www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/7.htm shows a traveler with something called a kake-mamori slung around her neck. It's basically a roll of cloth with cord tied to either end. I bet it would not be difficult to make a pouch that looks like a kake-mamori that can be accessed through a slit along the side instead of being completely unwrapped to get to the goods inside.

And now, I'm really thinking I need to MAKE one this week. ;-D I promise I'll post info on my process and results.

[solveig]

Noble Cousin!

Greetings from Solveig! Kaishi (folded paper inserted into the folds of the kosode) is period.
Some things just don't work that well. You can also place a paper wallet in the kai. You really only need one car key which you can wear on a string around your neck under your clothes. Cell phones are more of a problem. Also, why do you need to carry it around with you at events? Are you on call or something?

Stuff that you buy can be tied up in a furoshiki (also period) and carried around that way.

Now then, if you want to carry lots of stuff around, then you can be a porter. In this case you can either have a chest on your back or a smaller chest suspended from a pole slung over your shoulder.

[inume]

Thank you for posing this question, Imagawa-dono and for your answers Takeda-dono, Makiwara-dono and Solveig-dono! I was planning on using my plain black oilskin haversack that I got from Panther Primitives for Pennsic (where I usually carry more then just my wallet and keys around with me), but I was curious about a smaller pouch for events.

[Takeda Sanjuichiro]

inume said:

I was planning on using my plain black oilskin haversack that I got from Panther Primitives for Pennsic...

Ya know I know there is at least 1 person who walks around with a "stealth haversack" essentially he incorperated a haversack into a kesa... since he does a monk persona this works well for him. (except of course when he tries to sneak around a 2 liter of diet coke)

-Takeda

[Imagawa Tadamori]

I found something interesting... in Effingham-sensei's book "Samurai, 1550-1600" (from the Osprey Warrior series) p. 23:

"A second sack, usually worn at the waist, contained a change of clothing and whatever personal items the warrior may need; for example something to patch his clothing with, a few yards of string for quick field repairs to his armor, fire-starting tools, writing implements, grooming aids, etc."

What kind of sack is this, and does anyone have a picture so I can duplicate one?

- Imagawa

[Imagawa Tadamori]

solveig said:

Noble Cousin!

Greetings from Solveig! Kaishi (folded paper inserted into the folds of the kosode) is period.
Some things just don't work that well. You can also place a paper wallet in the kai. You really only need one car key which you can wear on a string around your neck under your clothes. Cell phones are more of a problem. Also, why do you need to carry it around with you at events? Are you on call or something?

Stuff that you buy can be tied up in a furoshiki (also period) and carried around that way.

I need to carry the cell phone because I have a 66 year old father with medical issues (to whom I promised I would always be reachable if he ever needed anything). Other than that, as long as I can carry money and a key/alarm fob to gain entry to my vehicle, I'm good. The furoshiki idea is ok, but I'd rather have some type of pouch or bag... if I can figure out a period solution.

- Imagawa

[Water_Tengu]

takedasanjuichiro said:

intellectual said:

My personal feeling is that they were a simple container that were not too embellished, and was not worn openly (at least by the samurai and nobility) In the Edo period you have many more suptuary laws, and I feel that it is at this time the simple inro evolved into it's more characteristic decorative form, that was then worn openly, so as to display ones wealth (sorta like a watch chains and fobs, simple at first, but increasingly more ornamented and openly worn)

Modified to add: Additionally I do not know, if they were called inro pre-edo or not so that might be another reason for the discrepancy. I.e. "yeah they are pretty juch the same thing, but back then they were called "XYZ"".


-Takeda

1. thank you, that makes sense, i have a fairly simple one that fits the description

2. but they would probably fit into the category of sagemono still, so you could just call them that

[Saionji Shonagon]

You didn't hear this from me, but it is entirely possible to conceal a haversack beneath one's uchikake or dobuku.

[Saionji Shonagon]

takedasanjuichiro said:

If you have bigger or bukier things to worry about, tie a long stringed drawstring pouch to your obi, and wear it inside your hakama. (word of warning: do not put a heavy object like a cell phone in there, they tend to migrate to the front as you walk, and then smack into "things" if you get my meaning)

In 18th century Europe and America, women wore pockets that hung from a band tied around the waist under their petticoats and accessible through side slits. The construction is almost exactly like a trouser pocket - a bag with an opening on one side.
www.italian-leather-handbags.co.uk/images/mid-18th-century-embroidered-pocket.png

It's either that or design cargo-hakama. I blame bovil for showing me these:
www.pingmag.jp/2006/01/18/construction-worker-fashion/

[bovil]

makiwara said:

It's either that or design cargo-hakama. I blame bovil for showing me these:
www.pingmag.jp/2006/01/18/construction-worker-fashion/

Come on, you've got to link Kaseyama. It's like International Male for Japanese Construction workers, except that its all real and earnest, not a parody.

And yes, all the models in the catalogs are real construction workers.

[inume]

I'm totally eyeballing the safety tabi for SCA fighting - I know, not period, but doesn't stick out like a sore thumb (or a pair of modern combat boots).