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Post by Otagiri Tatsuzou on Feb 18, 2009 23:00:08 GMT -5
You 'da man!
Way to reach for it!
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Post by greeknakos on Jun 2, 2009 17:53:13 GMT -5
As I get ready to start putting my armour together, I was thinking about this thread.
Have you put the pieces onto your do yet and do you have pictures?
Please.
Thanks
Nakos
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Post by mrcunningham on Jun 2, 2009 20:19:25 GMT -5
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Post by mitsuhide on Sept 29, 2009 21:41:40 GMT -5
Is there a standard pattern for egawa or is it kinda up to you cause I have an idea for one and what is the size requirments??
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Post by Please Delete on Sept 29, 2009 21:48:58 GMT -5
Egawa is pretty standardized. I think Hiraizumi-gimi's webpage ( sengokudaimyo.com) might have something about it. -Ii |
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Post by mitsuhide on Oct 1, 2009 8:29:19 GMT -5
Yes I am aware that all things can be answered on his site, But I am also aware that he has one area of traing in the armouring arts but things were not done the same way by two different people even trained in the same area by the same person. I am sorry that everyone runs to Eff to answer their questions but really he doesn't have all the answers. O li I get that the people on this board that have as many posts as you guys do just copy paste his link avoiding really answering questions that try to want to be different.
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Post by mrcunningham on Oct 1, 2009 11:46:12 GMT -5
When I printed out the patterns from Eff's site, the squares came in at about 3 inches on a side, so that's what mine are. I actually modified the border and the interior design to fit my personal heraldry (that creative anachronism thing rearing its head again), and I don't see any reason why you couldn't do the same.
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Post by Rokurou on Oct 1, 2009 17:44:49 GMT -5
Mitsuhide-dono, As Mr. Cunningham has pointed out, you can change what ever you want to fit what you want. Date Saburou Yukiie changed his and placed his Kamon where the lions would be, making it specific to only his armor. I plan on doing the same, using my Kamon, when I finally make it myself. With that said, I also agree with Ii-dono in posting just the link. If you look on the page where Egawa is mentioned ( www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.ch03.html) you will see that there are a couple of different versions shown, but they do follow a standardized design. I hope this helps. Date Rokurou Yoshimitsu |
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Post by Please Delete on Oct 1, 2009 19:13:13 GMT -5
Yes I am aware that all things can be answered on his site, But I am also aware that he has one area of traing in the armouring arts but things were not done the same way by two different people even trained in the same area by the same person. I am sorry that everyone runs to Eff to answer their questions but really he doesn't have all the answers. O li I get that the people on this board that have as many posts as you guys do just copy paste his link avoiding really answering questions that try to want to be different. I apologize for attempting to answer your question. And you are right... it is completely the number of posts I have that cause me just to copy and paste. It has nothing to do with time spent in Japan and Japanese museums. It has nothing to do with researching this stuff, even if an amateur style, for well over a decade. It doesn't have anything to do with the experiences gained in that time. Totally based on the number of posts I have (and here is one more!) Here's something not on Effingham's site: In my experience, there are only a limited number of patterns available for egawa. Unfortunately, I have to work, so I don't have that much time left to go through my library, look for it, and recreate the wheel with what I think Hiraizumi-gimi (who spent time studying with actual, highly respected armorers who do actual restoration of actual museum pieces, as well as new ones) has on his website. If you have already looked there or elsewhere, please let us know and we can look for alternative sources, but why should we do more work for you if you haven't demonstrated you've done the basic work, yourself? You asked if there is a standard pattern. That appears to be the case. If you aren't going to accept the answer, why ask the question? -Ii |
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AJBryant
New Member
甲冑師 katchuu-shi
Posts: 1,972
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Post by AJBryant on Oct 1, 2009 20:59:30 GMT -5
Mattaku....
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Post by Kurodachi no Mykaru on Oct 2, 2009 2:08:19 GMT -5
but things were not done the same way by two different people even trained in the same area by the same person Actually your quote above shows you *don't* know. Egawa patterns are standardized (that's why some of them have dates). Sane are the same from the south of shikoku to the north of tohoku. You don't like the answers you get, do your own damn research. I spent 2 years there studying with traditional armourers and spent quite a bit on my own armour library. Eff's research library and knowledge exceeds mine. You don't like that he is the authority, go there and do the work, spend the time, spend the money. You want to do something non-standard, fine that's your choice. Don't insult people who research real items rather than manga. |
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Post by mitsuhide on Oct 4, 2009 11:01:53 GMT -5
One thing Effs site is great I will never say other wise but, I am doing my own damn research and for me it seems hard to believe that over a 1000 years of reinvention and fighting that they only came up with 2 designs and I may be wrong I have been known to be on numerous days and times. The sengoku site is the bible for anyone trying to build armour of the japanese style, to just send people to reread and reread it I have it saved on the computer and two copies printed in my armouring area. So I understand what he is saying, this forum I thought was designed to help in aiding the knowledge of armouring and other recreations not plugging his site. When it comes to real life questions a good number of those posts get left unanswered or the link goes up. I understand that the three of you are busy mean but come on simply saying go back to the web site really doesn't help..
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AJBryant
New Member
甲冑師 katchuu-shi
Posts: 1,972
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Post by AJBryant on Oct 4, 2009 12:09:10 GMT -5
Two designs? Where did that come from? I show four on the website and mention that there are dozens. (The many times delayed hard copy of the manual, which I work on in periodic free moments, has pattern designs for about a dozen of the more common forms.)
I think the general "check the manual" is typically shorthand for "most of the typical questions are already answered therein (somewhere). If there is info that is *not* there, sure, we're glad to answer.
In this case, your question:
*is* answered there. If you want to see any of the patterns *other* than the geometrics that I posted, the easiest thing to do is look at actual Japanese armour (something that, both here and in the manual, I am constantly telling people to do) and *see* what they were doing.
You don't really have that much leeway when doing printed leather -- there were specific styles and designs that were in vogue at different times. You can't use a later Kamakura or Muromachi leather design on a Heian or early Kamakura armour without making an anachronism; you can use an early Kamakura design on sengoku armours, but it becomes a fashion statement.
It would be easier to offer advice if, perhaps, you gave us an idea of what kind of thing you are thinking of doing, since you say you have an idea of one.
Effingham
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Post by Please Delete on Oct 4, 2009 17:02:07 GMT -5
The sengoku site is the bible for anyone trying to build armour of the japanese style, to just send people to reread and reread it I have it saved on the computer and two copies printed in my armouring area. So I understand what he is saying, this forum I thought was designed to help in aiding the knowledge of armouring and other recreations not plugging his site. When it comes to real life questions a good number of those posts get left unanswered or the link goes up. I understand that the three of you are busy mean but come on simply saying go back to the web site really doesn't help.. Hiraizumi-gimi answered the question about how many types, but to be clear: "Before Beginning" is the section. Quote: So, that answers the question you asked about whether or not the patterns are standard. For most of us, the reason we parrot back "check out the manual" is that, because of the medium of this board, I have know idea if you've looked at it or not. If you were to come back with a question like: "I noticed on Eff's website that he mentions there are a dozen or so patterns--what are they?" Or, "I see that there mentions of dozens of patterns for egawa--are these the only ones out there?" --Either of those questions would have had us looking to give a deeper answer to your question. However, we have been burned too often by people just wanting us to do their work for them, so we usually give the easy answer first. If Solveig's name book were online, I'd do the same thing with names. Bottom line: If you want something beyond the basics, then explain what research you have done to date, at least a little, or be more specific in your question. -Ii PS: I will admit that I often read the boards by just reading the "recent activity" view. This means that if you asked a question a few months ago (or even a few weeks ago) where you mentioned looking at something online, I may not see it, so if you ask a "basic" question without any clarifiers, then I may return a basic answer for you. |
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Post by mitsuhide on Oct 5, 2009 10:43:50 GMT -5
Nobles and Gentles, My research has dropped me at an impass I can only find those Four patterns (sorry for short changing you Eff-sensei) I have been incredibly frustrated with this and the way I lashed out was wrong of me. If any of you can point me in a direction with a book title I enjoy doing the research. Its part of the game, again I am sorry. Some times my mouth goes off with out getting the facts first I blame my birth  ... |
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