egawa (now with pictures!)

[AJBryant]

You're not the only one. You should see me on a bad day.

Seriously, though, I'd hit the books, but my library is almost entirely packed (and all the Japanese books are already done) for the move.

I did have these files on my computer









And there are some are LARGE files showing full patterns:

www.sengokudaimyo.com/Tempstuff/shoheigawa.jpg
www.sengokudaimyo.com/Tempstuff/tempyogawa.jpg
www.sengokudaimyo.com/Tempstuff/egawascan1.jpg
www.sengokudaimyo.com/Tempstuff/egawascan2.jpg
www.sengokudaimyo.com/Tempstuff/egawascan3.jpg

[oravainen]

Oct 4, 2009 12:09:10 GMT -5 AJBryant said:

You don't really have that much leeway when doing printed leather -- there were specific styles and designs that were in vogue at different times. You can't use a later Kamakura or Muromachi leather design on a Heian or early Kamakura armour without making an anachronism; you can use an early Kamakura design on sengoku armours, but it becomes a fashion statement.

How about the dates of those patterns you posted? (wonderfull stuff *drool*)
I'm planning on a sengoku period set. Egawa is among the details that make armour ridiculously cool. Particularly that last scan 'egawascan3' makes me all tingly.

[Mega Zenjirou Yoshi]

Please forgive the thread necromancy, but my research shows that this thread is the most complete survey of egawa patterns on the net.
Seems silly not to place this here.


Any opinions on this pattern? I quite like it, and since I have uncovered just enough white leather scraps in my stash of odds and ends, I think I may incorporate it into my dô.

[pallidus]

Has anyone tried printing the egawa on one of those "print your own T-shirt" things on your printer and then transferring it on to the leather? Or perhaps silk screening it on the leather...

[Mega Zenjirou Yoshi]

So I have a question about the amount of egawa used on a do.
Are there rules or guidelines to this?
Could one, for instance use the egawa strips on the haidate but not on the kanagu mawari?
I've seen some instances of egawa on the bottom lame of the kusazuri and sode, and/or kanmuri ita. I assume this is optional, not every do with egawa elsewhere seems to have it.
Could one have egawa on most of the kanagu mawari, but skip it on the watagami and/ or gyoyo?
My gut and limited exposure lead me to think that the more egawa, particularly in the later 16th century the more expensive and ostentatious the suit.
Right now I am thinking of using egawa on the strips of the haidate, the panel on the nodowa, the muniata, oshitsuke no ita, and wakiita. Maybe the watagami. I'd like to have gyoyo, but skip using egawa on it.
My do will be a dangae do of straight lames, hishinui mostly with kebiki or sugake odoshi on the front tateage, and dangly bits of kiritsuke iyo zane in sugake iyo zane. What little I have parsed out of my new persona, is that he is a middle rank Bushi ( I have an AoA) has a healthy interest in the arts and Zen, so appreciates sophisticated simplicity. As much as possible, I'd like my armor to reflect that.

(Edit)
I have enough white leather to do every possible piece of egawa, recycled from a motorcycle jacket a friend gave me after a bad slide. I'm not intimidated by the stencil ing process, I figure it should be two viewings of Kagemusha, tops. But just because one CAN do something, doesn't mean they should.

[AJBryant]

Jun 20, 2013 21:10:19 GMT -5 Mega Zenjirou Yoshi said:

So I have a question about the amount of egawa used on a do.
Are there rules or guidelines to this?
Could one, for instance use the egawa strips on the haidate but not on the kanagu mawari?

Of course. The leather in the haidate is primarily structural -- it's there for strength. You could even use PLAIN leather there if you didn't have egawa. It's totally independent of the egawa used in the dô.

I've seen some instances of egawa on the bottom lame of the kusazuri and sode, and/or kanmuri ita. I assume this is optional, not every do with egawa elsewhere seems to have it.

That sort of thing is very much an Edo sort of affectation.

Could one have egawa on most of the kanagu mawari, but skip it on the watagami and/ or gyoyo?

Certainly -- although I'd do something with the gyôyô, if you have an armour that uses egawa -- it needs to have the same level of "ostentation." Maybe an applied mon, for example.

My gut and limited exposure lead me to think that the more egawa, particularly in the later 16th century the more expensive and ostentatious the suit.

Good gut.

Right now I am thinking of using egawa on the strips of the haidate, the panel on the nodowa, the muniata, oshitsuke no ita, and wakiita. Maybe the watagami. I'd like to have gyoyo, but skip using egawa on it.
My do will be a dangae do of straight lames, hishinui mostly with kebiki or sugake odoshi on the front tateage, and dangly bits of kiritsuke iyo zane in sugake iyo zane. What little I have parsed out of my new persona, is that he is a middle rank Bushi ( I have an AoA) has a healthy interest in the arts and Zen, so appreciates sophisticated simplicity. As much as possible, I'd like my armor to reflect that.

Sweet!

[Mega Zenjirou Yoshi]

Thank you, your excellency.
This helps quite a bit. Though after tangibly having one of kusazuri laced in hand, I think my mind has changed a bit on the dô.
I am now leaning toward a nuinobe dô, and as much as I'd like to use some egawa on it, from the examples I've seen it wasn't commonly done. Gyoyo, either, though fukurin don't seem to be rare.
With a few notable and admirable exceptions seen in this forum, egawa is not common on SCA Nihonese armor, and it would be nice to take it to the next level, but of course not at the sake of authenticity.
I will add it to the haidate, however.

[roninpenguin]

Jun 19, 2013 22:38:35 GMT -5 pallidus said:

Has anyone tried printing the egawa on one of those "print your own T-shirt" things on your printer and then transferring it on to the leather? Or perhaps silk screening it on the leather...

In my quest for SCA durable Egawa I was looking for 3 things, 1) Durability 2) Inexpensive 3) Ease of manufacture and replacement.

I tried the T-Shirt transfer to leather early on and it just doesn't wear well. It isn't ink soaked into the leather it is a plastic that sticks to the leather with the ink on it so the plastic starts pealing off with any amount of rubbing.

I was just about to try silk screening (I even have one of those photo setting screen kits like this Plaid Silk Screen Kit) but then I thought of lacquering paper and went with that. So far it has held up to several events and fighter practices.

[Mega Zenjirou Yoshi]

So after two failed attempts at cutting a stencil with the finest point of a wood burning tool and vinyl stencil film, I am considering other options.

My next experiment will be using laser prints and a xylene based colorless marker.

This is a transfer technique I learned while work in an art store in the 90's. A photo copy or laser print ( must be dry-toner based) is placed upside down on the surface you wish to transfer to, and the lines of the art work are then drawn over with the colorless marker ( chartpak AD marker blenders are the only ones I know of that use the right solvent). Can even be a good idea to burnish the lines with a bone folder or similar implement, to ensure a good transfer.

I've only used the technique to transfer images to be carved out for block printing, and then only in black and white. But some folks on the Internet have had moderate success with color toner-based copies, so it's worth a shot. I plan on going over the transfer with sharpies, this will just be a quick way to get the cartoon down.

Will update this thread with my results.

[roninpenguin]

You could also transfer Laser Printer using an iron if you print onto a plastic overhead projector sheet. Because the laser printer uses heat to set the ink on the sheet you can also use heat to transfer patterns from the sheet to another medium. My wife uses this method to transfer designs onto silver for etching resist.

I'm not sure if you would have to get this so hot it would discolor the leather but it may be worth a shot.

[Deleted]

Jul 8, 2013 21:36:07 GMT -5 Mega Zenjirou Yoshi said:

I plan on going over the transfer with sharpies.

I've had some bad luck with using Sharpie markers on leather. Sometimes, the ink continues to diffuse into the leather over time, and the design becomes blurry.

[Mega Zenjirou Yoshi]

Ishiyama-dono, what kind of time line are we talking about here for this diffusion? Minutes? Hours? Days? More?

Was considering deco color markers, as mentioned previously in this thread, but leaned toward sharpies as I have a good supply on hand. Will try some tests on scrap pieces of my leather, but am curious how long to wait before reaching a conclusion.

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2013 10:09:16 GMT -5 Mega Zenjirou Yoshi said:

Ishiyama-dono, what kind of time line are we talking about here for this diffusion? Minutes? Hours? Days? More?

I'm not quite sure. I made a bunch of badges for our household by coloring on white leather with Sharpies. I got them completed a few years ago just before Pennsic. The head of the household handed out a few at one Pennsic, and when I saw them the next year they were blurry. Maybe it's just because of the amount of coloring I did? I dunno.

[Mega Zenjirou Yoshi]

Ishiyama-dono, it is hard to tell from that photo, but that looks like vege-tanned leather. What I'm working with is definitely chrome-tanned to a bright white. I just did some tests with both black and red sharpies on some small scrap, but don't know how long I wait for the results.

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2013 16:10:36 GMT -5 Mega Zenjirou Yoshi said:

Ishiyama-dono, it is hard to tell from that photo, but that looks like vege-tanned leather. What I'm working with is definitely chrome-tanned to a bright white. I just did some tests with both black and red sharpies on some small scrap, but don't know how long I wait for the results.

It is certainly possible that your mileage may vary. I really can't tell you what kind of leather I used since it came out of one of those "bundle of scraps" this one dealer at Pennsic sells for cheap. If you, with your more specific knowledge of your materials, are confident, then best wishes. I just thought I would warn you based on my experience before you put in the effort. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.