ninjas in the SCA?

[Shinomori Haku]

so as a brand new member of the SCA and a marshal artist with some bujinkan training its natural that i want to do a shinobi persona with the skills i have acquired. though ninja did not wear the shinobi shokozu during the day, they did wear them in night raides and assassinations that aren't poisoning ones tea related according to the ninpouden anyway. ninja would also disguise them selfs as anything monk, farmer,samurai,3 ducks in a man suit, to get closer to the target as well. but the shinobi shokozu was worn so y is it "not ninja like" when its period? i thought about wearing a fake mustache one day or another dressing like a girl, hey! mitsunari ishida did it!

Attachments:

[Saionji Shonagon]

www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/ninja.html

SCA Ninja:

[Shinomori Haku]

Feb 16, 2012 0:32:42 GMT -5 Saionji Shonagon said:

www.sengokudaimyo.com/miscellany/ninja.html

SCA Ninja:

i dont want to be english and im already familiar with this link and disagree with it intirly

[Yawata Saburou Tadamori]

If I may ask, please explain why you disagree.

[Shinomori Haku]

Feb 16, 2012 2:20:30 GMT -5 Yawata Saburou Tadamori said:

If I may ask, please explain why you disagree.

In a sense I think there is alot of stigma revolving around what a "shinobi" is, I think popular culture found in things like anime or movies label something as the "ninja uniform"being cheesy and historically inaccurate but think of this: a ninja wears tekko,khyohan,hakama, kosode, tabi, mask (aka the shinobi shokozu which is historically accurate). take away the mask what do i get? everything every one else in japan wears. so youre being a shinobi. and the ninja mask is just a mask. so i want to be a shinobi from japan and stay in japanese clothes. is it ninjutsu to wear the geijinn clothes that the "sca ninja" in the picture above wear? yes but not what i want to do and i get a feeling from Effingham-sensei's link that all ninjutsu is a joke and its not real. I hope this helps you understand why I disagree.

[Miyamoto Takezo]

Oh! Excellent disguise Saionji-dono! Or perhaps that isn't you, just someone who looks very similar?

[Deleted]

Because of the secrecy surrounding shinobi, you cannot expect any help from anybody. Nobody who knows anything will admit it, and nobody who claims to know something can be trusted. Why make things so hard on yourself?

My advice would be to work on your "cover identity" here. Pick your public persona and we will help you achieve that as best we can. What you do in secret is none of our business. Keep in mind that maintaining your cover identity, especially now that we suspect, will be hard work.

i get a feeling from Effingham-sensei's link that all ninjutsu is a joke and its not real.

Exactly what you'd expect a ninja to tell you, isn't it? Hmm... I haven't seen Baron Effingham at an event in several years, but now that I think about it, that doesn't mean he isn't there.

[Saionji Shonagon]

Feb 16, 2012 4:09:00 GMT -5 Miyamoto Takezo said:

Oh! Excellent disguise Saionji-dono! Or perhaps that isn't you, just someone who looks very similar?

No comment.

[Kôriki Ryuushirô Hiroshige]

Feb 16, 2012 11:25:09 GMT -5 Saionji Shonagon said:

Feb 16, 2012 4:09:00 GMT -5 Miyamoto Takezo said:

Oh! Excellent disguise Saionji-dono! Or perhaps that isn't you, just someone who looks very similar?

No comment.

I know who it is....... ;D

It's Effingham-sensei, he shaved and put on a dress......... Although you'll never get him to admit it

[Miyamoto Takezo]

Feb 16, 2012 11:40:00 GMT -5 Kôriki Ryuushirô Hiroshige said:

Feb 16, 2012 11:25:09 GMT -5 Saionji Shonagon said:

No comment.

I know who it is....... ;D

It's Effingham-sensei, he shaved and put on a dress......... Although you'll never get him to admit it

Kama-ta! Hahahahahahahaaa!!!

They do in fact speak the truth. As a new daimyo, I'm not going to say that I don't have a few shinobi under my employ, it would be foolhardy for me not to have them. But also, as a new daimyo, I'm not going to say that I do have shinobi under my employ either, it would be fool hardy to admit that. You should go about it that way. Also, be observant! A quick eye and a careful study may well reveal some of the shinobi in suspect to you! Once you have identified them, study them closely, observe how they behave (and misbehave) in the SCA. And if you're brave, confront them in private and explain to them what you have discovered, they'll either let you join or kill you I would imagine. At least, this is what I would do, but hey, I'm no ninja, I'm just a bushi on the warrior's pilgrimage who settled in Arn Hold and became a lord....somehow.

[Ishida Kentarou Mitsumasa]

This is my new favorite thread on the whole board.

In all seriousness, Effingham-sensei has it right here, historically. Doing a public ninja persona isn't period, even if shinobi were.

Also, if you view the SCA as a long term commitment, you're going to want a persona you can live in. I can't imagine an "out" ninja working well. What am I supposed to call you? Do you want to wear full-body black at hot summer events? The idea may sound fun, but you should think about whether you will enjoy it a year from now.

[sashakhan]

We had someone quite a few years back who insisted on wearing the ::ahem:: working clothes of the shinobi at all times - and the end result was that he was ostracized by the folks in the local SCA - after all, who wants an assassin - especially a totally clueless one who utterly, utterly failed at the art of Hensōjutsu - hanging around.

Really, do you want to be taken seriously? The fellow that was called 'Ninja Bob' took decades to live down his infamy. People, for better or worse, will base much of their future interactions with you based on first impressions - and you may make things much harder for yourself than you think by visibly, and publicly 'outing' yourself as a member of the criminal class.

[Yamamoto Morikazu]

I had to pipe in.

Someone from our clan claims he wants to be a ninja. SO. I put it to him this way and very simple.


You want all your titles ripped away and any future titles never given to you ?
You ever want any awards for the awesome work you have done ?
You want to be recognized for your prowess on the battle field ?
You ever consider being squired ?
Or knighted ?
or a Laurel ?

Go ahead be a ninja. You will be nothing but a joke in the SCA.

Be a samurai and experience everything we have to offer and so much more.


That aside.
Now you have training in martial arts.
AWESOME. Put that to use with fighting, archery and everything martial the SCA has to offer.
ENjoy it.


Why make it hard on yourself with being a "ninja"



now for the historical side.

There was an entire province in Nippon that was "ninja"
They had no contact with anyone from europe because they made it very clear "dont F with us"
So. be ninja ?
not accurate for SCA.

Samurai ?
You had contact with europe and could be part of the game.

after all that was told to him.
He became samurai.
He looks good. Fights well and is honorable.
He is still our best sneak thief for stealing the barbarians beer.

play the game man. with other people. Not in your head.
enjoy it and have fun. and learn. its a blast

[Shinomori Haku]

Feb 18, 2012 2:10:36 GMT -5 sashakhan said:

We had someone quite a few years back who insisted on wearing the ::ahem:: working clothes of the shinobi at all times - and the end result was that he was ostracized by the folks in the local SCA - after all, who wants an assassin - especially a totally clueless one who utterly, utterly failed at the art of Hensōjutsu - hanging around.

Really, do you want to be taken seriously? The fellow that was called 'Ninja Bob' took decades to live down his infamy. People, for better or worse, will base much of their future interactions with you based on first impressions - and you may make things much harder for yourself than you think by visibly, and publicly 'outing' yourself as a member of the criminal class.

it would seem u dont understand the difference between fake ninjutsu and the real deal. vary vary few shinobi were criminals most were samurai. and marshal arts is based on disepton my friend if some would like to view me as a joke and laffing stalk thats fine . but its there honner that will suffer when i beet them in tournaments and events after all no one expects the ninja to win but ur honner is hurt if me the ninja defeats you

[Shinomori Haku]

Feb 18, 2012 11:09:43 GMT -5 Yamamoto Morikazu said:

I had to pipe in.

Someone from our clan claims he wants to be a ninja. SO. I put it to him this way and very simple.


You want all your titles ripped away and any future titles never given to you ?
You ever want any awards for the awesome work you have done ?
You want to be recognized for your prowess on the battle field ?
You ever consider being squired ?
Or knighted ?
or a Laurel ?

Go ahead be a ninja. You will be nothing but a joke in the SCA.

Be a samurai and experience everything we have to offer and so much more.


That aside.
Now you have training in martial arts.
AWESOME. Put that to use with fighting, archery and everything martial the SCA has to offer.
ENjoy it.


Why make it hard on yourself with being a "ninja"



now for the historical side.

There was an entire province in Nippon that was "ninja"
They had no contact with anyone from europe because they made it very clear "dont F with us"
So. be ninja ?
not accurate for SCA.

Samurai ?
You had contact with europe and could be part of the game.

after all that was told to him.
He became samurai.
He looks good. Fights well and is honorable.
He is still our best sneak thief for stealing the barbarians beer.

play the game man. with other people. Not in your head.
enjoy it and have fun. and learn. its a blast

a shinobi is a tool nothing more. he should not care about titles its about getting the jon done. this is a real shinobi. as for ur history, ninjutsu originated in china and was perfected in japan. its not historically accurate to say no ninja made it to gaijin lands. meny scrolls and info was lost when the mountains of iga and kouga were attacked.